Tedd Huff: 00:00:01

Welcome to FinTech Confidential, bringing you the people,

Tedd Huff: 00:00:05

tech and companies that change how you.

Robert Musiala: 00:00:11

We haven't dug into, so we, the first was mean coin and

Robert Musiala: 00:00:15

then proof of work mining and now proof of stake mining activities

Robert Musiala: 00:00:18

are not gonna be considered.

Tedd Huff: 00:00:19

Talked about hacks still some, some other ways that

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people are, are losing money.

Robert Musiala: 00:00:25

2025 rug pull report and analyzed pump and dump schemes.

Robert Musiala: 00:00:30

Approximately 98.7% of tokens on the pump out fund marketplace

Robert Musiala: 00:00:35

apparently exhibited characteristics indicative of pump and dump schemes.

Robert Musiala: 00:00:39

We are seeing a larger percentage of ultra high net worth individuals.

Robert Musiala: 00:00:44

Invest in digital assets issues like event in France, attempt to

Robert Musiala: 00:00:48

kidnapping and stuff like that, or it's allowing service of process via NFT.

Robert Musiala: 00:00:52

Some real serious use cases for NFTs.

Robert Musiala: 00:00:55

Upgraded the network now several times and every time it's gone off without a hitch

Tedd Huff: 00:00:59

long time payment.

Tedd Huff: 00:01:01

Folks ripple promoting really, really heavily.

Tedd Huff: 00:01:05

The tokenized payment flow,

Robert Musiala: 00:01:07

I'm first glance, don't appear to be related, but when you

Robert Musiala: 00:01:10

really is probably affecting each other.

Robert Musiala: 00:01:12

Last year, the DOJ brought charges against these two brothers, and

Robert Musiala: 00:01:15

just recently in this month of May, those charges were dropped.

Tedd Huff: 00:01:18

ETF inflows hit the $3.3 billion number.

Tedd Huff: 00:01:23

The total crypto assets on our management reached $136 billion.

Tedd Huff: 00:01:30

Bitcoin pushed well above $111,000.

Tedd Huff: 00:01:37

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Tedd Huff: 00:01:44

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Welcome to Web3 with FTC.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:00

If you're asking how blockchain, crypto ai, or even quantum

Tedd Huff: 00:03:05

computing fits into your business strategy, this is built for you.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:09

We talk about the builders and decision makers who are doing the work.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:13

You'll hear smart conversations, straight insights, and no

Tedd Huff: 00:03:16

filler, whether you're a founder.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:19

Exact are just trying to stay ahead.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:21

This is where the real talk meets real tech.

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It's powered by FinTech Confidential, and we keep it practical.

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We cover the shifts that matter and you'll get the signal, not the noise.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:33

So let's get started.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:34

We had to push this off for a little bit, Rob.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:36

Uh, due to some, some personal stuff.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:39

Um, I actually, I'm recording this and the Clinton, Iowa

Tedd Huff: 00:03:44

Chamber of Commerce podcast room.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:47

I'm so grateful for them offering up this space for me to go ahead and record this.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:52

And because of that, we are just a little bit late.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:55

So we may slip in and, and give a few pieces away.

Tedd Huff: 00:03:59

The things that happened in June.

Tedd Huff: 00:04:00

We might just have to repeat it, and they may have just made some

Tedd Huff: 00:04:03

additional progress by the time we released for June, but in May,

Tedd Huff: 00:04:10

2025 it was anything but quiet.

Tedd Huff: 00:04:12

Uh, we saw it.

Tedd Huff: 00:04:13

ETF inflows hit the $3.3 billion number.

Tedd Huff: 00:04:18

The total crypto assets on our management reached $136 billion.

Tedd Huff: 00:04:25

Bitcoin pushed well above $111,000.

Tedd Huff: 00:04:31

Ethereum broke 62 billion and tokenized US treasuries topped 22 billion.

Tedd Huff: 00:04:39

Not only that, but the Genius Act cleared the Senate for vote, the protocol.

Tedd Huff: 00:04:43

Staking got a pass from the SEC Legal service by NFT, got greenlit as well

Tedd Huff: 00:04:50

and nearly a quarter billion was hacked with over half of it being recovered.

Tedd Huff: 00:04:55

I'm glad some of it got recovered, but I. Not only that, but Circle also dropped

Tedd Huff: 00:05:02

a realtime payments network, which is gonna be fun to talk about today.

Tedd Huff: 00:05:05

Central banks have pushed ahead with stable coin pilots and real world asset

Tedd Huff: 00:05:10

tokenization saw some major growth.

Tedd Huff: 00:05:13

Now, I can't believe all of this happened.

Tedd Huff: 00:05:16

We didn't even cover everything.

Tedd Huff: 00:05:16

All of this happened in a single, in the single month of May.

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And if you folks are wondering, I'm your host Ted Huff, and I am being joined today

Tedd Huff: 00:05:25

by my co-host and confidential informant.

Tedd Huff: 00:05:28

Robert Sala, the co-leader of the Web3 Digital Assets team at Baker Hostetler,

Tedd Huff: 00:05:34

a leading law firm and the lead author of the Weekly blockchain monitor.

Tedd Huff: 00:05:40

Block.

Tedd Huff: 00:05:41

If you haven't checked it out, go over to the blockchain

Tedd Huff: 00:05:44

monitor.com and check it out.

Tedd Huff: 00:05:46

It has some great information.

Tedd Huff: 00:05:48

They cover trends on legal developments in crypto, and a whole

Tedd Huff: 00:05:52

bunch of other really good stuff.

Tedd Huff: 00:05:54

So today we're gonna be diving into the biggest themes of for May, 2025.

Tedd Huff: 00:05:58

So Rob, let's get into it.

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And I'm curious what stood out to you?

Tedd Huff: 00:06:04

This wave of May milestones, is there any single development that you

Tedd Huff: 00:06:08

think has bigger implementations than we're actually giving you credit for?

Robert Musiala: 00:06:14

So I, I think there are a lot of different notable

Robert Musiala: 00:06:18

developments that, uh, on first glance don't appear to be related,

Robert Musiala: 00:06:23

but when you really analyze them, uh.

Robert Musiala: 00:06:26

You realize that a lot of this stuff is interrelated and is probably affecting

Robert Musiala: 00:06:31

each other, uh, behind the scenes.

Robert Musiala: 00:06:33

The Senate stablecoin bill, the Genius Act, advancing for Vote

Robert Musiala: 00:06:37

to the Senate floor, one of the biggest news items in my view.

Robert Musiala: 00:06:40

But you combine that with, um, circle launching a payments network and circle.

Robert Musiala: 00:06:47

And you know, this is development just recently from now from early

Robert Musiala: 00:06:50

June becoming a public company.

Robert Musiala: 00:06:52

So those two things, seemingly operating separately, but really

Robert Musiala: 00:06:56

converging, you know, in many respects.

Robert Musiala: 00:06:59

Similarly, you've got, and we'll talk more about these updates as well, you

Robert Musiala: 00:07:02

know, the SEC guidance on staking, which is intended to, um, provide

Robert Musiala: 00:07:06

more confidence for proof of stake networks like the Ethereum network,

Robert Musiala: 00:07:09

which by the way is the main network that the USDC stablecoin resides on.

Robert Musiala: 00:07:14

So another sort of.

Robert Musiala: 00:07:16

Seemingly unrelated item that actually is quite related.

Robert Musiala: 00:07:19

We'll, we'll also get into what I like to think is the most missed development,

Robert Musiala: 00:07:23

which is the Ethereum Petra upgrade.

Robert Musiala: 00:07:25

One of those upgrades actually, you know, made it easier for institutional

Robert Musiala: 00:07:29

staking by raising the staking limits.

Robert Musiala: 00:07:31

So again, um, one of these updates that maybe people, a lot of people

Robert Musiala: 00:07:35

missed, but that is driving more institutional demand for things like

Robert Musiala: 00:07:39

Ethereum, ETFs, and then also helping to support the networks that some of

Robert Musiala: 00:07:42

this, all this stuff re uh, relies on.

Tedd Huff: 00:07:44

We've.

Tedd Huff: 00:07:45

Gone through these fits and spurts where e gets a lot of traction and then it

Tedd Huff: 00:07:50

switches over to Bitcoin and then back.

Tedd Huff: 00:07:52

And obviously you've got Bitcoin, Bitcoin maxes that, that always

Tedd Huff: 00:07:56

stay in the Bitcoin camp a lot.

Tedd Huff: 00:07:58

But it's been interesting to watch it kind of flow back and forth.

Tedd Huff: 00:08:02

And I, I attended the Bitcoin 2025 event, uh, in Las Vegas last month.

Tedd Huff: 00:08:08

It had.

Tedd Huff: 00:08:09

A lot of energy, but just as much controversy, uh, with not only the people

Tedd Huff: 00:08:14

who spoke, but what they were speaking about, the people that were attending.

Tedd Huff: 00:08:19

You could definitely feel what was going on.

Tedd Huff: 00:08:23

I mean, there was so many debates walking through.

Tedd Huff: 00:08:26

It actually got to a point at, during the conference that.

Tedd Huff: 00:08:32

The host, uh, of one of the sessions just got up and walked off stage because

Tedd Huff: 00:08:38

it really got, really got heated.

Tedd Huff: 00:08:41

You know, some of us in, in the press and media.

Tedd Huff: 00:08:43

Maybe we amplified a little bit of it, but, you know, it was all in in good fun.

Tedd Huff: 00:08:47

So there was some really good stuff that happened that not only while

Tedd Huff: 00:08:51

all that is going on, you know, a bunch of speculation mounted, uh, of

Tedd Huff: 00:08:55

Hidden Road being acquired by Ripple.

Tedd Huff: 00:08:58

Um, and they confirmed that at a, a. $1.25 billion and you know, it

Tedd Huff: 00:09:05

was, it was really overshadowed by the event because if you take a

Tedd Huff: 00:09:10

deeper look into it, it, it really.

Tedd Huff: 00:09:14

Signals, a deeper involvement in the institutional finance and

Tedd Huff: 00:09:18

market access, and a lot of the same people that are looking at that.

Tedd Huff: 00:09:23

We're also looking at circle, expanding its role into the real

Tedd Huff: 00:09:27

time payments area, and that is one that I find kind of interesting then

Tedd Huff: 00:09:32

myself, because I, I guess maybe I look at stable coins as a payment.

Tedd Huff: 00:09:38

System a payment rail.

Tedd Huff: 00:09:40

I've dug into it a little bit, but it's still it.

Tedd Huff: 00:09:43

It feels a little counterintuitive for me.

Robert Musiala: 00:09:45

This market has grown to the point where it is diverging in

Robert Musiala: 00:09:49

multiple directions and is servicing the needs and meeting the needs.

Robert Musiala: 00:09:54

Of a wide variety of both professionals and indi individuals and businesses.

Robert Musiala: 00:09:58

Bitcoin remains in many respects, you know, the preferred cryptocurrency

Robert Musiala: 00:10:04

of anti, anti-institutional list type businesses, companies, individuals

Robert Musiala: 00:10:10

at the same ti and you know, and Bitcoin continues to, to grow both in

Robert Musiala: 00:10:14

its market cap and also in its use.

Robert Musiala: 00:10:17

At the same time, you know, we see all these advancements with stable

Robert Musiala: 00:10:20

coins that are, I think, more, uh, exemplary of institutional adoption

Robert Musiala: 00:10:25

where you've got a new payment rail.

Robert Musiala: 00:10:27

Specifically tied to the US dollar, specifically the subject of pending

Robert Musiala: 00:10:31

legislation and even something that it has been brought to market in an initial

Robert Musiala: 00:10:36

public offering, you know, by a major stable coin provider, and it doesn't get

Robert Musiala: 00:10:40

too much more institutionalized in that.

Robert Musiala: 00:10:42

Yeah, so you see the crypto market sort of meeting the needs of both sides of both.

Robert Musiala: 00:10:47

Parts of this spectrum and probably, you know, we could probably, uh,

Robert Musiala: 00:10:50

look at everywhere in between, you know, where this market is growing,

Robert Musiala: 00:10:54

um, for a wide variety of, of users.

Tedd Huff: 00:10:58

When you look at all these different pieces and the mature

Tedd Huff: 00:11:01

maturation of, of the industry.

Tedd Huff: 00:11:05

And it seems to be maturing at a record pace right now.

Tedd Huff: 00:11:09

How, how do you see these kinds of situations shaping investor or policymaker

Tedd Huff: 00:11:16

responses to, to what's going on?

Robert Musiala: 00:11:20

in the current environment, uh, we've really seen, uh,

Robert Musiala: 00:11:24

regulators take a nuanced and, and sort of more free market approach overall.

Robert Musiala: 00:11:29

I do think that that will continue, but I also think that.

Robert Musiala: 00:11:33

We will see targeted involvement from US regulators.

Robert Musiala: 00:11:38

And we've seen that in the month of May.

Robert Musiala: 00:11:39

We'll talk about the staking guidance, I think from the SEC in just a little

Robert Musiala: 00:11:42

bit, but that's a great example.

Robert Musiala: 00:11:44

And we've also seen, at the same time, clear examples of, uh,

Robert Musiala: 00:11:50

enforcement agencies pulling back.

Robert Musiala: 00:11:52

There's an interesting example from the DOJ that we'll talk about, I

Robert Musiala: 00:11:55

think a little bit that shows that.

Robert Musiala: 00:11:57

And so.

Robert Musiala: 00:11:58

I think that,

Tedd Huff: 00:11:59

How would you summarize like all of those different things, right?

Tedd Huff: 00:12:02

So you've got S-E-C-D-O-J, all these things.

Robert Musiala: 00:12:04

I think the environment has become more of a

Robert Musiala: 00:12:06

surgical approach in recent months in particular where, uh, overall,

Robert Musiala: 00:12:12

uh, there's more of a free market.

Robert Musiala: 00:12:15

Uh, environment, but with some very targeted, very surgical, very well

Robert Musiala: 00:12:20

thought out actions that remind us that you do need some, some smart

Robert Musiala: 00:12:24

regulation in this marketplace.

Tedd Huff: 00:12:25

And it's interesting, you, you mentioned free market, right?

Tedd Huff: 00:12:28

So the total crypto market cap reached $3.29 trillion in the month of May.

Tedd Huff: 00:12:36

You know, I mentioned in the intro that the.

Tedd Huff: 00:12:38

Intraday all time high during the month of May, and I'm, I'm

Tedd Huff: 00:12:42

gonna read this very specifically.

Tedd Huff: 00:12:44

It was $111,970.17 on the 22nd of May.

Tedd Huff: 00:12:54

And then on the very last day of May at the I, I'm taking this as

Tedd Huff: 00:12:59

Eastern standard time, or eastern daylight time, I should say.

Tedd Huff: 00:13:02

It closed at $104,010.90 still at close to an all time high.

Tedd Huff: 00:13:12

And then, like you mentioned, we're, we're in the middle of, of June and it, it's

Tedd Huff: 00:13:15

been fluttering right around that area.

Tedd Huff: 00:13:17

Not a whole lot of variation on it.

Tedd Huff: 00:13:18

Not only that, but Ethereum, the TVL climb to $62.59 billion.

Tedd Huff: 00:13:28

Uh, Solana and Carano led a layer one growth.

Tedd Huff: 00:13:32

It's, it's been really interesting with that because they've, they've

Tedd Huff: 00:13:34

continued to hit double digit gains.

Tedd Huff: 00:13:37

Of course, I've got to mention a fun meme coin.

Tedd Huff: 00:13:40

Um, so Doge held, steady it at a quarter, which is kind of interesting, especially

Tedd Huff: 00:13:45

everything that that has been going on.

Tedd Huff: 00:13:48

We start to dive in and as we, as you touched on, is like something you thought

Tedd Huff: 00:13:51

was really interesting when we kicked off was the institutional activity.

Tedd Huff: 00:13:56

It's representing about 50% of all volume that happened in May.

Tedd Huff: 00:14:01

You know, the US treasuries continue to grow.

Tedd Huff: 00:14:05

You're starting to see platforms like Stellar and Ethereum really leading that

Tedd Huff: 00:14:10

charge, creating an area where these ETFs can pull in $3.3 billion in a single week.

Tedd Huff: 00:14:20

If you look at total assets.

Tedd Huff: 00:14:23

Managed N ETFs, uh, uh, the number that I was able to come up with and, and, and

Tedd Huff: 00:14:30

I don't know if it's exactly perfect, right, but it's right around $136 billion.

Tedd Huff: 00:14:36

You've got all these different players.

Tedd Huff: 00:14:38

We talked about circle, I mean, meta mask even expanded its solution as well.

Tedd Huff: 00:14:44

I mean, there's just so many things that are going on.

Tedd Huff: 00:14:46

I wonder if where we're.

Tedd Huff: 00:14:49

At right now is growth because we're getting more comfortable, or is

Tedd Huff: 00:14:55

this just more money coming in to try and figure out where it can go?

Tedd Huff: 00:15:02

Um, I love to, like, what, what are you thinking?

Tedd Huff: 00:15:05

Is it we're just growing up and getting jobs with more

Tedd Huff: 00:15:09

money or is it that we keep.

Tedd Huff: 00:15:12

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Robert Musiala: 00:16:18

Well, so I'll, I'll answer it from sort of the perspective

Robert Musiala: 00:16:21

of an attorney working in this space.

Robert Musiala: 00:16:24

And you know, I like to say I'm not an expert on the price.

Robert Musiala: 00:16:26

I'm an expert on the laws that relate to the industry, and, but from that

Robert Musiala: 00:16:30

perspective, I will say having worked in this industry for 12 years now.

Robert Musiala: 00:16:35

What I've observed over time is slow and steady growth and

Robert Musiala: 00:16:39

slow and steady integration of cryptocurrencies and digital assets

Robert Musiala: 00:16:42

into the mainstream financial system.

Robert Musiala: 00:16:44

So I think we're continuing to see that, which has always been happening.

Robert Musiala: 00:16:47

We're also seeing, I think, research and development plans be where

Robert Musiala: 00:16:52

companies are pulling the trigger on plans that they maybe had.

Robert Musiala: 00:16:55

Waiting in the wings, where now with the new administration, they feel comfortable

Robert Musiala: 00:17:00

enough with the US regulatory environment to move forward with certain things that

Robert Musiala: 00:17:04

may maybe they didn't feel comfortable moving forward with a year or two ago.

Robert Musiala: 00:17:08

And then the last thing I'll say is with regard to the price is, you know,

Robert Musiala: 00:17:13

not being an expert on the price, but just observing that anytime the price

Robert Musiala: 00:17:18

of of digital assets are is strong.

Robert Musiala: 00:17:21

That allows companies to do a lot more things because so many of these companies

Robert Musiala: 00:17:25

hold a lot, most, if not all, of their value in digital assets themselves.

Robert Musiala: 00:17:30

And so when the price of those digital assets is relatively high, companies

Robert Musiala: 00:17:35

that have those treasuries, uh, feel like they can deploy more capital.

Robert Musiala: 00:17:39

And then that kind of creates a cycle where more things

Robert Musiala: 00:17:42

happen in the marketplace.

Robert Musiala: 00:17:43

And that's another thing I've sort of observed over the years.

Tedd Huff: 00:17:46

Digital assets and even more so, stablecoin was

Tedd Huff: 00:17:51

looked at as kind of theoretical.

Tedd Huff: 00:17:54

If, if you look at stables, I mean they, they've, they topped over $9 billion.

Tedd Huff: 00:17:59

Yield bearing stable coins have topped over $9 billion.

Tedd Huff: 00:18:02

I need to be super specific in that right circle.

Tedd Huff: 00:18:05

Launching their APIs for our B2B payments and treasury options, and figuring

Tedd Huff: 00:18:10

out ways to enable faster settlement.

Tedd Huff: 00:18:13

Um.

Tedd Huff: 00:18:15

I, I, I kind of giggle a little bit because I thought that

Tedd Huff: 00:18:18

they were already doing that.

Tedd Huff: 00:18:19

Uh, just I think what they've really done by launching this network is just made

Tedd Huff: 00:18:25

it a little bit more non crypto native friendly to really allow enterprise folks

Tedd Huff: 00:18:35

to be able to leverage it versus just.

Tedd Huff: 00:18:38

Techno geeks like myself, um, to get these real time settlement features.

Tedd Huff: 00:18:43

You know, and then, and then if you move over to some of the other things

Tedd Huff: 00:18:45

that have happened, I mean, Anchorage Digital has added more stable coining

Tedd Huff: 00:18:50

strategies to their, to their offerings.

Tedd Huff: 00:18:54

Their, their portfolios are continuing to grow in that space and supporting

Tedd Huff: 00:18:57

a little bit more structure around it.

Tedd Huff: 00:18:59

You know, the one that I looked at as a, a long time payment.

Tedd Huff: 00:19:05

Cross border across institutional, um, payment folks has been ripple and

Tedd Huff: 00:19:11

they are now promoting really, really heavily the tokenized payment flows.

Tedd Huff: 00:19:17

So it's not just using XRP, it's not doing cross border, it's

Tedd Huff: 00:19:22

not figuring out a way to manage through the correspondent banking.

Tedd Huff: 00:19:26

It, it's really just tokenizing the entire flow, which has been really neat.

Tedd Huff: 00:19:31

I, I thought it was interesting also that inmate Madam Mass rolled out

Tedd Huff: 00:19:35

their native support for Solana, really signaled that they have ambitions

Tedd Huff: 00:19:42

about go about going multi chain and, and going well, well beyond Ethereum.

Tedd Huff: 00:19:48

Um, and that, that's a, that's a big piece there.

Tedd Huff: 00:19:51

And you mentioned it in the, in the opening that there was,

Tedd Huff: 00:19:54

Ethereum had a new release.

Tedd Huff: 00:19:56

Right.

Tedd Huff: 00:19:56

And there was, there was some, something special about that.

Tedd Huff: 00:19:59

What.

Tedd Huff: 00:20:00

What did you find so special about the Petra release?

Robert Musiala: 00:20:05

Sure.

Robert Musiala: 00:20:05

Well, a couple things.

Robert Musiala: 00:20:06

Ethere, the Ethereum, uh, foundation has upgraded the network now several

Robert Musiala: 00:20:10

times, and every time it's gone off without a hitch, and that's a huge

Robert Musiala: 00:20:14

accomplishment in and of itself.

Robert Musiala: 00:20:15

So we've had that event occur once more, uh, in the month of May where the Petra

Robert Musiala: 00:20:21

upgrade was successfully implemented.

Robert Musiala: 00:20:24

There was a lot in that upgrade, but, um, really three pieces of

Robert Musiala: 00:20:27

it that I find most interesting.

Robert Musiala: 00:20:29

First, it's going to allow wallets to function with a lot of the

Robert Musiala: 00:20:33

features of smart contracts.

Robert Musiala: 00:20:35

On a, on the previous episode we talked about this concept of programmable money.

Robert Musiala: 00:20:39

Mm-hmm.

Robert Musiala: 00:20:40

And, you know, the idea of allowing an Ethereum wallet address to now operate

Robert Musiala: 00:20:45

with similar features as a smart contract, I think is moving us closer

Robert Musiala: 00:20:49

to things like programmable money.

Robert Musiala: 00:20:51

We'll probably enable things that we haven't even thought of yet.

Robert Musiala: 00:20:54

Second, uh, the upgrade increased the validator staking limit from 32 E to 2048

Robert Musiala: 00:21:01

E. So that's a huge difference there.

Robert Musiala: 00:21:03

That's there difference.

Robert Musiala: 00:21:04

Yeah.

Robert Musiala: 00:21:04

And that I think really sets the stage for more institutionalized staking, which is

Robert Musiala: 00:21:08

gonna help to support the network even, even better, and, uh, will also enable

Robert Musiala: 00:21:15

more profitable business mo uh, models.

Robert Musiala: 00:21:17

For institutional stakers.

Robert Musiala: 00:21:18

And then lastly, um, taking some, the, the, uh, the Petra upgrade

Robert Musiala: 00:21:23

took some steps to further lower layer two transaction costs.

Robert Musiala: 00:21:26

And that's always been, you know, an issue that's top of mind for

Robert Musiala: 00:21:28

anyone building on Ethereum.

Robert Musiala: 00:21:30

So those are really the three key highlights of Petra.

Robert Musiala: 00:21:33

Um, and again, the fact that it went off without a hitch, I think

Robert Musiala: 00:21:35

is big news in and of itself.

Tedd Huff: 00:21:37

A lot of the discussions that, uh, I've been part of

Tedd Huff: 00:21:41

, The conversation really has been trying to understand like how to manage yield

Tedd Huff: 00:21:48

bearing stable coins and Mountain Protocol pushed really, really far into it.

Tedd Huff: 00:21:54

And what it's telling me is that

Tedd Huff: 00:21:57

the markets now have gone from let's experiment.

Tedd Huff: 00:22:02

Let's figure out what can potentially work.

Tedd Huff: 00:22:05

And now they're, they're making that shift over to productization, to,

Tedd Huff: 00:22:10

to start generating some revenue, to start finding some funds.

Tedd Huff: 00:22:14

Do you think that this is going to change or adjust any, the stable

Tedd Huff: 00:22:19

coin movement that's going on, um, globally, and do you think that.

Tedd Huff: 00:22:26

Regulatory perspective is, is gonna continue to be fragmented or are we gonna

Tedd Huff: 00:22:32

start to see some convergence across the different places around the globe?

Robert Musiala: 00:22:37

Two other jurisdictions that, you know, you and I were

Robert Musiala: 00:22:39

talking about earlier, uh, of interest are Hong Kong, uh, and the

Robert Musiala: 00:22:43

UK have also taken action on stable coins, and we can get into that.

Robert Musiala: 00:22:47

I think that you'll see this small group, uh, of jurisdictions

Robert Musiala: 00:22:51

converge around stable coins.

Robert Musiala: 00:22:53

That's absolutely already been happening.

Robert Musiala: 00:22:55

In fact, you could argue it started happening, uh, the European

Robert Musiala: 00:22:58

MICA regulation, which created a framework for stable coins.

Robert Musiala: 00:23:01

to that end, I do, I do see some convergence, um, specifically

Robert Musiala: 00:23:05

around stablecoin products.

Tedd Huff: 00:23:07

And really what it's doing is it's setting up the

Tedd Huff: 00:23:09

requirements for stablecoin reserves and audits and am ML controls.

Tedd Huff: 00:23:15

Not only that, but the SEC has declared that the protocol

Tedd Huff: 00:23:19

staking is not a security.

Tedd Huff: 00:23:23

The Clarity Act was also introduced to define asset

Tedd Huff: 00:23:27

classes a little bit more clearly.

Tedd Huff: 00:23:29

The Department of Justice pulled earlier crypto guidance.

Tedd Huff: 00:23:34

Um, you'd mentioned Micah and they just finalized phase two.

Tedd Huff: 00:23:40

I think the stablecoin licensing that's happening in Singapore, Hong Kong

Tedd Huff: 00:23:46

is really interesting, especially.

Tedd Huff: 00:23:50

Thailand has banned any and all unregistered exchanges.

Tedd Huff: 00:23:55

So that, that's another piece where you're starting to see the

Tedd Huff: 00:23:58

regulation get a little bit, a little bit, um, more focused.

Tedd Huff: 00:24:03

And before I hand it over, Rob, with the DOJ and dieting, tornado

Tedd Huff: 00:24:08

caches Roman Storm, at least so far, they found about $263 million.

Tedd Huff: 00:24:16

A fraud ring that is tied to nfs that was leveraging tornado cash.

Tedd Huff: 00:24:23

So that's gonna be a lot of fun to see that kind of come to a close.

Tedd Huff: 00:24:28

What are you.

Tedd Huff: 00:24:30

Seeing with all of these pieces, I'd like to dive maybe a little bit deeper

Tedd Huff: 00:24:34

into, um, the DOJ piece or, or even, um, genius Act, SECI know you and

Tedd Huff: 00:24:42

I talked before we, we got started.

Tedd Huff: 00:24:44

We, we have a, a really good feeling that, that we might actually have the Genius

Tedd Huff: 00:24:49

Act voted for, and very, my opinion, very likely pass in the month of June.

Tedd Huff: 00:24:57

What do you, what do you think this, what may marked for coordination,

Tedd Huff: 00:25:05

um, around all of these?

Robert Musiala: 00:25:07

Three things come to mind in terms of updates that happened

Robert Musiala: 00:25:10

in May of significance, you know.

Robert Musiala: 00:25:12

First obviously is the Genius Act going to, uh, a vote on the

Robert Musiala: 00:25:16

Senate floor and it'll be really interesting to see what we have to

Robert Musiala: 00:25:20

talk about next month on this podcast.

Robert Musiala: 00:25:22

And, you know, very good chance that that act will be passed or

Robert Musiala: 00:25:26

close to passed out of the Senate.

Robert Musiala: 00:25:28

That's a huge update, but related to that, you know, two updates that maybe didn't

Robert Musiala: 00:25:33

get as much attention Also in May, um, Hong Kong actually beat us to the punch.

Robert Musiala: 00:25:38

Hong Kong passed their stable coins bill and created a, a licensing

Robert Musiala: 00:25:42

regime for issuers of fiat back stable coins in Hong Kong.

Robert Musiala: 00:25:46

And so they are, you know, hopefully the US will be number two in, in, uh,

Robert Musiala: 00:25:50

passing stablecoin legislation this year.

Robert Musiala: 00:25:52

But Hong Kong is number one.

Robert Musiala: 00:25:53

And as we discussed, you know, the Europeans, uh, passed it.

Robert Musiala: 00:25:57

Last year.

Robert Musiala: 00:25:58

So we are seeing a convergence around stable coins.

Robert Musiala: 00:26:01

And then lastly, the United Kingdom in the month of May released a consultation

Robert Musiala: 00:26:05

paper related to stable coins.

Robert Musiala: 00:26:06

And so they seem to be well on their way, uh, towards stablecoin legislation.

Robert Musiala: 00:26:10

Um, turning attention to, um.

Robert Musiala: 00:26:13

The Department of Justice.

Robert Musiala: 00:26:14

You know, you mentioned the tornado ca cash case.

Robert Musiala: 00:26:17

Another interesting update, uh, coming onto DOJ in the month of May,

Robert Musiala: 00:26:21

DOJ dropped charges, uh, that it had brought last year against two

Robert Musiala: 00:26:25

brothers who had hacked the Ethereum blockchain, uh, in a very novel fashion,

Robert Musiala: 00:26:30

and were able to steal $25 million.

Robert Musiala: 00:26:32

By hacking the Ethereum blockchain itself in a way that, um, as far as we

Robert Musiala: 00:26:36

can tell has never been done before.

Robert Musiala: 00:26:37

Last year, the DOJ brought charges against these two brothers, and

Robert Musiala: 00:26:40

just recently in this month of May, 2025, those charges were dropped.

Robert Musiala: 00:26:45

And this seems to be an example of some of the, uh, philosophy that was

Robert Musiala: 00:26:50

articulated in what's known as the Blanche memo, where, um, prosecutors

Robert Musiala: 00:26:54

were instructed to avoid, um, imposing regulatory frameworks on digital assets.

Robert Musiala: 00:26:59

Mm-hmm.

Robert Musiala: 00:26:59

And so, you know, we see an example of that.

Robert Musiala: 00:27:01

In those charges being dropped.

Robert Musiala: 00:27:03

And then lastly, uh, the SEC published its guidance on staking and happy to

Robert Musiala: 00:27:08

get into that, but I, I think I'll just pause here for a moment to see if you

Robert Musiala: 00:27:11

have any reaction or other kind of, uh, guidance for the conversation here.

Tedd Huff: 00:27:15

I think it was really interesting how you, you know, the, the

Tedd Huff: 00:27:18

actions by the DOJ that I'd mentioned.

Tedd Huff: 00:27:21

I mean, you put a lot of, uh, a lot of extra details into that.

Tedd Huff: 00:27:26

It's interesting to see that we've got.

Tedd Huff: 00:27:29

Some things being more heavily focused on to, to solve for starting to see where

Tedd Huff: 00:27:36

if you haven't spent time in the, in the space, it could be very confusing.

Tedd Huff: 00:27:43

They're starting to treat crypto crimes like regular crimes.

Tedd Huff: 00:27:47

They're starting to treat digital assets like real, real assets They're

Tedd Huff: 00:27:51

trying to treat, starting to treat.

Tedd Huff: 00:27:54

Cryptocurrency, like fiat currency, it's like, it, it may look confusing from

Tedd Huff: 00:28:01

the outside with all of these decisions being made that may look contradictory.

Tedd Huff: 00:28:07

But I think it's just because we're starting to look at these

Tedd Huff: 00:28:11

things as digital versions of the, of the physical thing.

Tedd Huff: 00:28:14

So we, we might be in our, um, in the des I'll use design terminology.

Tedd Huff: 00:28:18

We may be still in the skew morphic level.

Tedd Huff: 00:28:21

All of these different things, and we haven't fully gone digital.

Tedd Huff: 00:28:24

We're still in that skew morphic phase.

Tedd Huff: 00:28:26

We're trying to figure out what, what in the physical world it looks like.

Tedd Huff: 00:28:30

And I think, I think that's what you're starting to see with all of

Tedd Huff: 00:28:33

these different things happening.

Robert Musiala: 00:28:35

Yeah.

Robert Musiala: 00:28:35

And you know, the, the DOJ uh, charges being dropped against the hackers.

Robert Musiala: 00:28:40

That hacked the Ethereum network.

Robert Musiala: 00:28:42

Last May reminds me a little bit, the very first Ethereum Fork, which you

Robert Musiala: 00:28:46

know, was based off of a hack and way back in, you know, 2015 or whatever

Robert Musiala: 00:28:51

it was, you know, someone hacked the Ethereum network, department of

Robert Musiala: 00:28:54

Justice, didn't get involved in that.

Robert Musiala: 00:28:56

And instead what happened, the Ethereum developers who developed that network

Robert Musiala: 00:29:02

collectively and the miners collectively decided to roll a network back and

Robert Musiala: 00:29:05

restart it and erase that hack.

Robert Musiala: 00:29:08

I'm not saying that's what should happen here, but I think it's

Robert Musiala: 00:29:10

an interesting, it comes to mind because here maybe the implicit

Robert Musiala: 00:29:14

message is your network got hacked.

Robert Musiala: 00:29:17

There isn't necessarily, um, a crime there in that someone, uh, exploited your code.

Robert Musiala: 00:29:24

And maybe it's not up to the DOJ to fix that problem.

Tedd Huff: 00:29:27

You know, last month we talked about the sheer volume of,

Tedd Huff: 00:29:32

of stolen assets in May estimated to be $244 million in hacks.

Tedd Huff: 00:29:39

The really cool part that I thought was interesting is the CDI protocol

Tedd Huff: 00:29:45

recovered $157 million and it's like one of the biggest clawbacks.

Tedd Huff: 00:29:52

Not only of this year, but in general, I thought it was really so, and I'm

Tedd Huff: 00:29:58

gonna go, I'm gonna go to Bitcoin 2025.

Tedd Huff: 00:30:03

At the event, I had friends that were high profile speakers and because of crypto

Tedd Huff: 00:30:11

execs having physical threats and being.

Tedd Huff: 00:30:15

Abducted in some cases.

Tedd Huff: 00:30:18

Uh, there, there's a lot of security around that, which we,

Tedd Huff: 00:30:21

we all kind of giggled about.

Tedd Huff: 00:30:22

But then we realized, oh crap, this is really serious.

Tedd Huff: 00:30:25

France is taking it super serious, and they've rolled out additional protections

Tedd Huff: 00:30:32

for physical threats, not just.

Tedd Huff: 00:30:36

The normal pieces, right?

Tedd Huff: 00:30:38

It's like, it, it's almost like a cyber bullying for a crypto execs type thing.

Tedd Huff: 00:30:43

Uh, that, that has come off of that piece of it.

Tedd Huff: 00:30:46

How does that change the way that people who have a large or, or have

Tedd Huff: 00:30:53

a substantial, I shouldn't even call it large, a substantial amount

Tedd Huff: 00:30:57

of net worth tied up in crypto?

Tedd Huff: 00:30:59

How are, how are you?

Tedd Huff: 00:31:01

How are you seeing that impact stuff?

Robert Musiala: 00:31:03

We are seeing a larger percentage of ultra high net worth

Robert Musiala: 00:31:07

individuals invest in digital assets, serious concerns about some of the

Robert Musiala: 00:31:12

issues that you just talked about and you know, issues like the in event in

Robert Musiala: 00:31:18

France, you know, the kidnapping and or attempted kidnapping and stuff like that.

Robert Musiala: 00:31:22

You know.

Robert Musiala: 00:31:23

Those are not new.

Robert Musiala: 00:31:24

They've absolutely been happening, um, over the years.

Robert Musiala: 00:31:28

Targeted usually, um, at foreign based non-US ultra high net

Robert Musiala: 00:31:32

worth holders of digital assets.

Robert Musiala: 00:31:35

But now that digital assets are becoming more and more of an asset class that

Robert Musiala: 00:31:40

more ultra high net worth individuals are interested in, um, I think these incidents

Robert Musiala: 00:31:45

are occurring a little bit more frequently and hitting the press a little bit more.

Robert Musiala: 00:31:50

I will say from an attorney's perspective, there's a whole host.

Robert Musiala: 00:31:54

You know, I've been advising ultra high net worth holders of

Robert Musiala: 00:31:56

digital assets for years now.

Robert Musiala: 00:31:58

I've been through several incidents, varying, varying types, and there's

Robert Musiala: 00:32:02

a whole, um, playbook of strategies.

Robert Musiala: 00:32:06

Apply to, you know, an ultra high net worth holder of digital assets

Robert Musiala: 00:32:10

that, you know, folks like you and me, just, we just don't have to

Robert Musiala: 00:32:13

think about these things, you know?

Robert Musiala: 00:32:15

Um, and, and there are strategies that are tailored to some of the specific

Robert Musiala: 00:32:20

nuances of, of crypto, and that could be anything from defending against sort of

Robert Musiala: 00:32:25

security, physical security type incidents to defending against technical type.

Robert Musiala: 00:32:30

Security incidents to things like, um, legacy and estate type planning issues

Robert Musiala: 00:32:36

in terms of like if there's, you know, an unfortunate event and how do you make

Robert Musiala: 00:32:39

sure that your crypto is accessible and is able to be, uh, you know, passed on,

Robert Musiala: 00:32:44

uh, appropriately and things like that.

Robert Musiala: 00:32:45

So these strategies have been out there for a long time, but I think

Robert Musiala: 00:32:49

they are now becoming a little bit, these issues are, the issue is becoming

Robert Musiala: 00:32:52

a lot more mainstream again, there are more, uh, ultra high net worth in

Robert Musiala: 00:32:57

individuals that are now investing.

Tedd Huff: 00:32:59

You know, as I think through the legal process, you

Tedd Huff: 00:33:01

know, judges in the us, the uk, and the EU, have approved using an on

Tedd Huff: 00:33:08

chain legal service leveraging NFTs.

Tedd Huff: 00:33:12

You know, we talked about programmable money in the past.

Tedd Huff: 00:33:14

I talk about it quite a bit, but now this opens up workflows for smart contracts

Tedd Huff: 00:33:20

on chain that really have nothing.

Tedd Huff: 00:33:25

As of right now to do with money movement, which I thought was really interesting.

Tedd Huff: 00:33:30

You know, there's, there's more to legal things than, than just

Tedd Huff: 00:33:34

tracking and getting things done and having those conversations for you.

Tedd Huff: 00:33:39

Um, when we start looking at leveraging these NFT based legal

Tedd Huff: 00:33:44

delivery services and what.

Tedd Huff: 00:33:48

We'll start there.

Tedd Huff: 00:33:49

We'll start there and I'll, I'll not, 'cause I got a couple other questions

Tedd Huff: 00:33:51

I wanna ask you, but we'll start there.

Tedd Huff: 00:33:54

Hey, Ted Huff here.

Tedd Huff: 00:33:55

Ever thought about how you could streamline your application

Tedd Huff: 00:33:58

and underwriting process?

Tedd Huff: 00:33:59

Well, let me introduce you to Under why keep using the outdated methods of PDFs

Tedd Huff: 00:34:05

would, you can digitize them effortlessly.

Tedd Huff: 00:34:07

All you gonna do is upload the PDF.

Tedd Huff: 00:34:09

Send it out for digital signature and voila, you're set for the digital age.

Tedd Huff: 00:34:14

Are you curious how, how to make that happen head over to

Tedd Huff: 00:34:17

under.io/FTC and get started for free?

Tedd Huff: 00:34:21

It's really that simple.

Robert Musiala: 00:34:24

So from a legal, kind of a legal geek perspective, I

Robert Musiala: 00:34:28

think, you know, this is pretty cool.

Robert Musiala: 00:34:30

Um, you know, there was a report earlier this year that was claiming NFTs are

Robert Musiala: 00:34:34

dead and, you know, published a lot of statistics about the dwindling.

Robert Musiala: 00:34:39

NFT market.

Robert Musiala: 00:34:40

But you know, these examples that you pointed out of courts allowing service of

Robert Musiala: 00:34:45

process via NFT is a fantastic example of some real serious use cases for NFTs way

Robert Musiala: 00:34:52

beyond things like art and digital media.

Robert Musiala: 00:34:55

And these are instances where a potential party to a lawsuit, but that party,

Robert Musiala: 00:35:00

uh, as an example, may be, um, hacked.

Robert Musiala: 00:35:04

Digital asset funds from a prospective plaintiff and that, you know, the

Robert Musiala: 00:35:07

plaintiff is trying to trace those funds and has traced them maybe to

Robert Musiala: 00:35:11

a specific wallet so they know where their digital assets went, but they

Robert Musiala: 00:35:14

don't know who owns that wallet.

Robert Musiala: 00:35:15

They don't know who perpetuated the hack.

Robert Musiala: 00:35:19

And so if you want to try to bring a court case, uh, you're gonna, you run

Robert Musiala: 00:35:23

into this issue of service, a process.

Robert Musiala: 00:35:24

How do you serve someone, uh, in a lawsuit when you don't know

Robert Musiala: 00:35:28

who they are or where they are?

Robert Musiala: 00:35:30

Interestingly, judges in a couple now instances now have approved service a

Robert Musiala: 00:35:35

process via NFT, where the plaintiff creates an NFT and instead of some

Robert Musiala: 00:35:41

kind of digital media, uh, on the NFT, it's actually service papers

Robert Musiala: 00:35:46

as a PDF or otherwise, uh, attached to that NFT and the NFT is sent.

Robert Musiala: 00:35:51

To the wallet where the stolen funds or disputed funds reside.

Robert Musiala: 00:35:55

Oh, that's

Tedd Huff: 00:35:55

super cool.

Robert Musiala: 00:35:56

And, uh, a couple courts now, both in the US and outside

Robert Musiala: 00:35:59

the US has have approved this as a, an effective and, um, approved.

Robert Musiala: 00:36:04

Method for, for serving process, uh, on a, on a defendant in a civil lawsuit.

Robert Musiala: 00:36:11

Uh, and I think that has fan really great implications for,

Robert Musiala: 00:36:15

the private civil side of this market where, you know, people wanna step up

Robert Musiala: 00:36:19

and defend their own rights and now have a better mechanism to do so, uh,

Robert Musiala: 00:36:24

in a pseudo anonymous marketplace.

Tedd Huff: 00:36:27

I love that the pseudo, that, that was a big

Tedd Huff: 00:36:30

conversation that we had at.

Tedd Huff: 00:36:31

Uh, almost every conversation at at Bitcoin 2025.

Tedd Huff: 00:36:37

The, the, the anonymity was always super important to everybody, just

Tedd Huff: 00:36:41

about everybody that I talked to, um, which you can imagine, K-Y-C-A-M-L

Tedd Huff: 00:36:48

was, was seen as not so much fun.

Tedd Huff: 00:36:50

Being able to do those things semi anonymously is really cool.

Tedd Huff: 00:36:56

We talked about hacks, um, but during our, our pre-prep call.

Tedd Huff: 00:37:00

You had mentioned that there, there's, there's still some, some other

Tedd Huff: 00:37:05

ways that people are, are losing money in the digital asset space.

Robert Musiala: 00:37:10

There was a really interesting report published in May.

Robert Musiala: 00:37:13

By Solidus Labs and it was entitled the 2025 Rug Pull Report and analyzed

Robert Musiala: 00:37:19

pump and dump schemes on the Solana Blockchain and found that, uh, according

Robert Musiala: 00:37:25

to the report, approximately 98.7% of tokens on the pump.fun marketplace

Robert Musiala: 00:37:31

apparently exhibited characteristics.

Robert Musiala: 00:37:33

Indicative of pump and dump schemes.

Robert Musiala: 00:37:35

And so that shows that it, it's an example of how beyond the threat of hacks, there's

Robert Musiala: 00:37:40

still quite a bit of a threat of, um, other illicit activities, including things

Robert Musiala: 00:37:46

like pump and dumps, um, and including on, you know, marketplaces that maybe

Robert Musiala: 00:37:51

are lower value or maybe, you know, um, folks aren't paying as much attention

Robert Musiala: 00:37:55

to, or maybe don't sort of provide the news shock, uh, on an individual level.

Robert Musiala: 00:38:00

Sometimes does, but this is an area where, you know, collectively, uh,

Robert Musiala: 00:38:05

98.7%, that's a high percentage.

Tedd Huff: 00:38:08

Do your own research has almost become a mantra for so, so many things.

Tedd Huff: 00:38:12

Um, this is one of those places where you have to do it, you have to look at it.

Tedd Huff: 00:38:17

And I was talking to, to friends and family and everybody's like, oh, well I

Tedd Huff: 00:38:21

don't get, get why there are so many coins and so many of this, and so many of that.

Tedd Huff: 00:38:26

And yeah, we've got Bitcoin, we've got.

Tedd Huff: 00:38:29

Other coins.

Tedd Huff: 00:38:30

We've got alt coins, we've got meme coins, we've got shit coins, we've got

Tedd Huff: 00:38:36

coins coming out everywhere, right?

Tedd Huff: 00:38:38

And you just have to look at why are you buying, buying it and does

Tedd Huff: 00:38:42

it have a history of doing what you're wanting it to do for buying?

Tedd Huff: 00:38:45

That is not meant to be advice, that is meant to be a perspective,

Tedd Huff: 00:38:49

uh, that I have for myself.

Tedd Huff: 00:38:51

So, as always, do your own research.

Tedd Huff: 00:38:53

Um, 'cause I'm not here to give any sort of, uh, financial or investment advice.

Tedd Huff: 00:38:59

But with that being said, you know, Robinhood, uh, went ahead

Tedd Huff: 00:39:03

and acquired Wondery, um, because they needed some help in Canada.

Tedd Huff: 00:39:07

And I, I think that was a big one.

Tedd Huff: 00:39:10

I think also that, um, pre-search launched their decentralized web

Tedd Huff: 00:39:17

indexing engine or the XSGD to expand stable coins on the XRP ledger.

Tedd Huff: 00:39:23

A lot of NFTs volume.

Tedd Huff: 00:39:26

Um, you know, I still remember.

Tedd Huff: 00:39:28

I actually got to meet one of the guys from Bored Apes, um,

Tedd Huff: 00:39:32

yacht club at Bitcoin 2025.

Tedd Huff: 00:39:35

He was at a dinner that somebody hosted.

Tedd Huff: 00:39:36

We both gotta attend.

Tedd Huff: 00:39:38

Um, and

Tedd Huff: 00:39:40

, we were kind of talking about how much the NFT trading volumes,

Tedd Huff: 00:39:44

like how was from boom to bust.

Tedd Huff: 00:39:46

And, and it was really interesting as I was doing the research for this, that it

Tedd Huff: 00:39:51

is down 93%, 93% from the all time highs.

Tedd Huff: 00:39:58

So that's been a really, really big thing, uh, that, that I found that

Tedd Huff: 00:40:02

these, you know, these are some notable mentions, uh, that, that I figured

Tedd Huff: 00:40:06

I would, I would throw in based on some of the conversations that I had,

Robert Musiala: 00:40:09

a small startup, uh, based in Dubai, not in

Robert Musiala: 00:40:12

the United States called mesh.

Robert Musiala: 00:40:14

Announced an integration with a, a major payments app provider, global payments app

Robert Musiala: 00:40:18

provider where they were gonna help allow that payments app to accept payment in

Robert Musiala: 00:40:24

a variety of different cryptocurrencies.

Robert Musiala: 00:40:27

Uh, and then also allow the merchant on the other end to receive payment in either

Robert Musiala: 00:40:33

the same crypto or a different crypto.

Robert Musiala: 00:40:35

Or Fiat.

Robert Musiala: 00:40:36

And so it's, you know, that was a really interesting example to me.

Robert Musiala: 00:40:41

The need for new tech integrations and solutions that are targeted at giving

Robert Musiala: 00:40:47

both the consumer and the merchant, uh, the choice between crypto and fiat, and

Robert Musiala: 00:40:53

then also on the, on the crypto side.

Robert Musiala: 00:40:55

The choice between different types of digital assets, from stable

Robert Musiala: 00:40:58

coins to more obscure coins.

Robert Musiala: 00:41:00

Uh, I thought that was a really notable item.

Tedd Huff: 00:41:02

It's, it's been really interesting, you know, with my, my

Tedd Huff: 00:41:05

advisory practice, the idea of leveraging digital assets and stable coins, and I,

Tedd Huff: 00:41:12

I know I'm separating like crypto stable coins, the ability to leverage NFTs as

Tedd Huff: 00:41:17

a, as a means to track and do automation.

Tedd Huff: 00:41:20

All of these things are conversations that are continuing to come up,

Tedd Huff: 00:41:23

and I'm starting to see a lot of, a lot of traction around that.

Tedd Huff: 00:41:27

Looking back at May, I mean, there were so many major moves on regulation,

Tedd Huff: 00:41:33

payments, the market structure, I. I'm looking forward to us getting more

Tedd Huff: 00:41:38

regulatory clarity here in the us.

Tedd Huff: 00:41:41

Um, and maybe catching up a little bit to the licensing frameworks that

Tedd Huff: 00:41:46

Asia and the EU have put in place.

Tedd Huff: 00:41:49

I'm, I'm wondering if like, ETFs are gonna start to slow down.

Tedd Huff: 00:41:53

They just seem like they just keep going and keep going and keep going.

Tedd Huff: 00:41:57

How would you sum up may.

Robert Musiala: 00:41:59

You know, I think May was a continuation of what we've

Robert Musiala: 00:42:03

seen all year, which is combinations of new regulatory developments, uh,

Robert Musiala: 00:42:10

combined with businesses becoming more and more interested in integration

Robert Musiala: 00:42:16

activities that behind the scenes make.

Robert Musiala: 00:42:18

Digital assets easier for people to use, and also interested in things

Robert Musiala: 00:42:22

like acquisitions and other kind of big ticket moves, deploying plans that they

Robert Musiala: 00:42:25

probably had, uh, for quite a while and find that this is the right time.

Robert Musiala: 00:42:30

Uh, to move forward with them.

Robert Musiala: 00:42:32

So, you know, we've seen that in previous months.

Robert Musiala: 00:42:34

This year.

Robert Musiala: 00:42:35

I think we've seen it probably the most this may.

Robert Musiala: 00:42:37

Will it slow down?

Robert Musiala: 00:42:38

Will the pace continue to accelerate?

Robert Musiala: 00:42:40

It?

Robert Musiala: 00:42:41

It, it's hard to say.

Robert Musiala: 00:42:42

Looking back at the month of May and now having five months to look back over

Robert Musiala: 00:42:45

the year, um, you know, I, I do see.

Robert Musiala: 00:42:49

Some very steady, uh, progress for the industry here in the us both from the

Robert Musiala: 00:42:54

market perspective, from the technical perspective, from things like, uh, the

Robert Musiala: 00:42:59

Petra upgrade on the Ethereum network and also from the regulatory perspective.

Robert Musiala: 00:43:04

Uh, and you know, we haven't dug into.

Robert Musiala: 00:43:06

SEC staking guidance too deeply.

Robert Musiala: 00:43:08

But I will say,

Robert Musiala: 00:43:09

it's now the fourth set of guidance that we've seen from the SEC. So we,

Robert Musiala: 00:43:13

the first was meme coins, um, stating that, you know, meme coins that

Robert Musiala: 00:43:17

meet certain characteristics are not securities, the second stable coins.

Robert Musiala: 00:43:21

And so if you think about it, those are kind of the two were

Robert Musiala: 00:43:23

probably the two least risky.

Robert Musiala: 00:43:25

Digital assets from a securities law perspective, and we've

Robert Musiala: 00:43:28

gotten clarity on both of them.

Robert Musiala: 00:43:30

And then the third, uh, was proof of work mining.

Robert Musiala: 00:43:33

So the Bitcoin mining network and now in May proof of stake mining, you know,

Robert Musiala: 00:43:37

where they said, uh, proof of work mining and now proof of stake mining

Robert Musiala: 00:43:40

activities are not gonna be considered offers and sales of securities.

Robert Musiala: 00:43:45

And so you kind of take a step back and look at that and what really what

Robert Musiala: 00:43:48

we've seen now is the two sort of.

Robert Musiala: 00:43:52

Digital assets, meme coins, and stable coins are probably the least risky from a

Robert Musiala: 00:43:56

securities law perspective to begin with.

Robert Musiala: 00:43:58

Have, you know, been given, um, some additional clarity from the SEC and then.

Robert Musiala: 00:44:03

The two types of network activities, proof of work, and proof of stake.

Robert Musiala: 00:44:06

Underpinning the two biggest blockchain networks, Bitcoin and Ethereum have been

Robert Musiala: 00:44:11

given additional guidance from the SEC saying that in generally these activities

Robert Musiala: 00:44:15

are not gonna be considered securities and the SEC will not be scrutinizing them.

Robert Musiala: 00:44:19

You know, that's a, that's a huge update for May, but it caps off,

Robert Musiala: 00:44:23

you know, I think, uh, a spectrum of updates that began, uh, you know,

Robert Musiala: 00:44:28

really in January of this year.

Tedd Huff: 00:44:30

If you're tracking the shape of Web3 and this month had like all

Tedd Huff: 00:44:34

of the signals, governments, financial firms, new products, new infrastructure,

Tedd Huff: 00:44:40

they all started to take fruit.

Tedd Huff: 00:44:42

Everything from Ripple's m and a circles B2B APIs, the Solana usage

Tedd Huff: 00:44:47

metrics, I mean, everything is flashing green for Web3 maturity.

Tedd Huff: 00:44:52

Whether you're a founder, a policymaker, a fund manager, the regulatory.

Tedd Huff: 00:44:58

The infrastructure plays, all the bank line protocols.

Tedd Huff: 00:45:03

I mean, everything is being defined for the next phase of what we

Tedd Huff: 00:45:07

call Web3, and they're showing absolutely no signs of slowing down.

Tedd Huff: 00:45:11

So Rob, what do you, what do you think this means for builders

Tedd Huff: 00:45:18

as they start to look into Q3?

Tedd Huff: 00:45:21

Of 2025.

Tedd Huff: 00:45:22

You

Robert Musiala: 00:45:22

know, I think it's still a very good environment.

Robert Musiala: 00:45:24

It's a, it's a good time to, you know, deploy.

Robert Musiala: 00:45:28

As you mentioned earlier, you know, builders go through sort of the

Robert Musiala: 00:45:32

design phase, the testing phase, redesign, and eventually deploy.

Robert Musiala: 00:45:36

Well, I think for builders who are ready to deploy, we're getting ready to deploy.

Robert Musiala: 00:45:41

Still a very good environment at the same time, uh.

Robert Musiala: 00:45:45

A lot is gonna happen and, you know, things are moving very quickly.

Robert Musiala: 00:45:48

You know, we'll probably see more developments on the stablecoin

Robert Musiala: 00:45:52

and SEC front, uh, that we we'll have to talk about next month.

Robert Musiala: 00:45:56

And it's gonna look, um, you know, hopefully in a positive direction,

Robert Musiala: 00:46:00

but no matter what, it's gonna look very different and significantly

Robert Musiala: 00:46:03

different, uh, than this month.

Robert Musiala: 00:46:05

And so you still have to sort of keep on top of, um, the changes

Robert Musiala: 00:46:09

because the changes are happening quickly and, and arguably, uh.

Robert Musiala: 00:46:13

The pace of change is accelerating over past, uh, months and years.

Robert Musiala: 00:46:18

So it's a good environment to deploy for builders, uh, but it's one where

Robert Musiala: 00:46:22

you still have to sort of keep your eye on, um, current developments.

Robert Musiala: 00:46:26

Uh, and then also, like we noted with report about pump and dump

Robert Musiala: 00:46:29

scheme schemes on Solana, there's still a lot of froth out there.

Robert Musiala: 00:46:32

And so you've gotta watch out and not get caught up in that froth, whether that be,

Robert Musiala: 00:46:37

um, fraud schemes, hacks, uh, or just um.

Robert Musiala: 00:46:41

Ideas and business models that don't have real value.

Tedd Huff: 00:46:44

I think it's important for those folks who are in

Tedd Huff: 00:46:48

payments, compliance, product strategy, whatever it is.

Tedd Huff: 00:46:52

If you've been thinking about stable coins being the side project, um, now

Tedd Huff: 00:46:57

is the time to really dive into that infrastructure because it can't be

Tedd Huff: 00:47:01

a side project anymore, especially with, with Singapore and the eu,

Tedd Huff: 00:47:06

as we've mentioned numerous times.

Tedd Huff: 00:47:08

You've gotta get your framework aligned now, or you're gonna risk falling behind.

Tedd Huff: 00:47:14

Do you agree?

Tedd Huff: 00:47:14

Do you feel like stable coins have finally crossed into that critical

Tedd Huff: 00:47:18

infrastructure for, for finance?

Robert Musiala: 00:47:22

I, I, I think we're sort of, uh, in the process of crossing

Robert Musiala: 00:47:25

the Rubicon, so to speak right now.

Robert Musiala: 00:47:27

I don't think we've completely crossed it yet to where there's a,

Robert Musiala: 00:47:30

we're at a point of no return, but I think we are on, on the way there.

Robert Musiala: 00:47:34

And, you know, I'm really interested to see what we have to talk about next month

Robert Musiala: 00:47:37

on this topic, because I have a feeling, you know, there are gonna be some major

Robert Musiala: 00:47:40

developments like major players, uh, launching stable coins, maybe, maybe a

Robert Musiala: 00:47:45

bank, you know, having either launching or having plans to launch a stable coin.

Robert Musiala: 00:47:50

Um, and I think that's where this is all headed, whether it's next month or, or a

Robert Musiala: 00:47:53

little bit farther down the line in 2025.

Tedd Huff: 00:47:56

Well, I love you hedging your bets with what happens in June

Tedd Huff: 00:48:01

and really strengthening your position around the US regulatory market.

Tedd Huff: 00:48:06

So I totally get where you're coming from, man.

Tedd Huff: 00:48:09

Uh, I'm, I'm a little bit more bullish when it comes to stables, I think.

Tedd Huff: 00:48:12

I think now's the time, and if you wait too long, it's gonna be too late, folks.

Tedd Huff: 00:48:17

That is it for today's episode of Web3 with FTC.

Tedd Huff: 00:48:20

If this discussion about Web3 caught your attention today, that's great because

Tedd Huff: 00:48:26

there's a lot more where this came from.

Tedd Huff: 00:48:28

You go ahead, head over to YouTube, Spotify, apple Podcast, or wherever

Tedd Huff: 00:48:32

you listen and hit that follow button.

Tedd Huff: 00:48:34

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Tedd Huff: 00:48:48

You'll be able to learn a lot more there and be able, be sure to share

Tedd Huff: 00:48:52

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Tedd Huff: 00:48:57

And if you haven't already, head over.

Tedd Huff: 00:49:00

The blockchain monitor.com and sign up to see what Rob puts out every single week.

Tedd Huff: 00:49:06

And as always.

Tedd Huff: 00:49:08

I keep moving forward as we wrap up today's episode.

Tedd Huff: 00:49:11

I've got one last thing for you.

Tedd Huff: 00:49:13

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Tedd Huff: 00:49:58

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Tedd Huff: 00:50:00

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Tedd Huff: 00:50:02

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Tedd Huff: 00:50:06

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Tedd Huff: 00:50:07

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