A Minty Fresh Approach to Payments with ePaymints Co-Founders Jodi Durst and Kim Coley

Durst: 00:00:00

We go.

Durst: 00:00:00

We move and we trust ourselves so much more than we did 10 years ago.

Durst: 00:00:05

And some of that has spun on of failure.

Durst: 00:00:07

Like we have failed, you know, we talk about this all the time that everybody

Durst: 00:00:11

talks about the beginning and in, but nobody talks about the in between.

huff: 00:01:38

Jodi and Kim, welcome to the show.

huff: 00:01:41

I'm really excited to learn more about how ePayments is enhancing

huff: 00:01:44

the buyer's journey with FinTech.

coley: 00:01:47

Thanks for having.

Durst: 00:01:48

so much.

Durst: 00:01:48

for having.

huff: 00:01:50

So I always jump in because you know, I've learned after being in FinTech

huff: 00:01:56

for well over 20 years that no one goes into FinTech really, really on purpose.

huff: 00:02:03

So I like to kick off the show by talking about our falling into

huff: 00:02:07

FinTech journey, our story, like how did you get introduced to FinTech?

huff: 00:02:11

And what was the thing that got you hooked?

huff: 00:02:14

That you just didn't leave.

Durst: 00:02:17

We kind of teased that we've grown up in payments.

Durst: 00:02:19

So I started in payments, uh, right outta college pretty much.

Durst: 00:02:24

And then worked for a lot of the tier one acquirers.

Durst: 00:02:27

I, I don't think we all go into this thinking it's gonna be our lifelong

Durst: 00:02:32

desire, but you do become passionate about the payment space and the

Durst: 00:02:37

FinTech space and new technology.

Durst: 00:02:39

And I think we've always been really forward thinking and wanting

Durst: 00:02:43

to be involved in new technology.

Durst: 00:02:45

Almost 30 year journey now, love it.

Durst: 00:02:48

And, uh, always look forward to what's coming new.

Durst: 00:02:51

I mean, it's a really exciting time to be in this space cuz

Durst: 00:02:54

things are changing daily.

huff: 00:02:56

When you start talking about.

huff: 00:02:59

The, the overarching thing that that kept you in, in the FinTech space,

huff: 00:03:03

is it that it always stayed the same?

huff: 00:03:06

Is it that, that it was always just being changed a little bit or was

huff: 00:03:10

it something completely different?

Durst: 00:03:13

No, I think it was that it was always changing.

Durst: 00:03:16

So just because of my background and the various things I did in my

Durst: 00:03:19

career, I got a little taste of all different types of, um, Of business

Durst: 00:03:25

and grew throughout my career.

Durst: 00:03:27

And then my last corporate stint, we were involved with a company out

Durst: 00:03:31

of Brazil and that just really got us excited on how we could change

Durst: 00:03:35

the way we looked at doing business and, uh, kind of birthed ePaymints.

huff: 00:03:41

Kim, I'm, I'm assuming your story's very similar, but

huff: 00:03:44

probably a little bit of extra twists and turns in there.

huff: 00:03:48

How about you share your side of it?

coley: 00:03:50

Tedd.

coley: 00:03:51

What I think is so funny.

coley: 00:03:53

I did share with you, I was laughing about this the other day, cause people always

coley: 00:03:57

crack up when they hear that they, we were calling them internet accounts, Jody

coley: 00:04:01

and I both started in payments at payment tech that wasn't even JP Morgan chase.

coley: 00:04:06

And we used to have to drive down to an office and we had a.

coley: 00:04:10

Dial up desktop, if you remember those things.

coley: 00:04:14

And at the time I was coming out of being in the furniture industry and I was trying

coley: 00:04:18

to build a website for my company, and it was still scanning line drawings,

coley: 00:04:23

but you still had to call someone.

coley: 00:04:25

And when I heard internet accounts were coming, I thought that was

coley: 00:04:28

the stupidest thing I'd ever heard.

coley: 00:04:30

They weren't even calling it eCommerce.

coley: 00:04:32

So to see that evolution to what we have now, And just the different platforms

coley: 00:04:39

and the way people are conducting business, it's what, where you're able

coley: 00:04:43

to bring the creativity to the job.

coley: 00:04:46

And when people think of FinTech, if you haven't been in it for a while, I think

coley: 00:04:50

that you imagine that it's just crunching numbers and it's not that at all.

coley: 00:04:55

It's really, we get to be involved in the creative aspects of

coley: 00:05:00

startups to enterprise companies.

coley: 00:05:02

And I just love it.

huff: 00:05:04

So that's very, something very interesting that you've brought up.

huff: 00:05:06

Kim is, a lot of products and services in FinTech seem to be a

huff: 00:05:12

solution looking for a problem.

huff: 00:05:14

How did you decide on what ePaymints was going to be and how

huff: 00:05:19

it was gonna be different than the organizations of your past?

coley: 00:05:23

When we were traveling around together at our previous

coley: 00:05:26

company, Jody ran the partner channel and I was in national sales.

coley: 00:05:30

So we were really working together, bringing our strengths and in the very

coley: 00:05:35

beginning, We did want to just be all things to all people, because we realized

coley: 00:05:40

that these were our relationships and you know, there's a lot of pressure on someone

coley: 00:05:45

at an enterprise company to bring a solution to the table these days, because

coley: 00:05:50

it doesn't just have to do with, oh, we're gonna increase your bottom line over here.

coley: 00:05:55

The technology has to work.

coley: 00:05:58

And so I think where we're a little bit different is.

coley: 00:06:01

We take the relationship that we have very seriously.

coley: 00:06:05

And so we'll look at it and almost come from a cons consultative approach as

coley: 00:06:10

opposed to, Hey, one size fits all, and here's the solution in a box.

coley: 00:06:14

That's gonna work for everybody because I've never known that to be the case.

huff: 00:06:19

What are the things that comes to mind as how you've

huff: 00:06:21

approached ePayments and, and learn from the the experiences of the past.

Durst: 00:06:27

I was blessed in my career path to have a

Durst: 00:06:29

lot of different experiences.

Durst: 00:06:31

And I think when we just started to formulate what ePaymints was gonna be, we

Durst: 00:06:35

wanted to, be all thanks to all people.

Durst: 00:06:37

And we quickly learned that was not the strategy to, to go about it, but

Durst: 00:06:41

it, it did bring a different, um, feel to our company because in corporate

Durst: 00:06:46

America, you're kind of boxed into the solution that you're you're selling.

Durst: 00:06:50

And one thing we're able to do is take a ton of different solutions and

Durst: 00:06:54

bring them together and find what's best for the customer or the client

Durst: 00:06:58

so that we can really customize and, um, make the best solution for that.

Durst: 00:07:04

client.

Durst: 00:07:05

And then as Kim said, relationships, like everything is about relationships.

Durst: 00:07:09

I think both of us have been like master networkers since the very beginning

Durst: 00:07:15

and having those relationships and then being forward thinkers and being

Durst: 00:07:19

able to take, you know, a solution and really look at it from all different

Durst: 00:07:23

angles and not being locked into one way to, to solve the problem and

Durst: 00:07:27

really looking for a true solution.

Durst: 00:07:29

Not.

Durst: 00:07:30

just What you have to offer.

Durst: 00:07:31

If we don't have it, we can go find it or we can go build it.

huff: 00:07:35

So that actually brings me into the next question.

huff: 00:07:38

what Technologies are you seeing that are starting to lose a bit

huff: 00:07:42

of traction in the marketplace?

huff: 00:07:44

And What are showing promise for your customer base?

Durst: 00:07:49

The first thing that comes to mind, I think, you

Durst: 00:07:52

know, coming up in the business.

Durst: 00:07:53

Everybody wanted to be associated with their bank.

Durst: 00:07:57

You know, that was the powerhouse.

Durst: 00:07:58

And now we're seeing that shift in people are looking for, um, the

Durst: 00:08:03

best person for the, the the job.

Durst: 00:08:06

You know, they're looking for that relationship, that

Durst: 00:08:08

handholding, um, that coming in.

Durst: 00:08:11

Having all those years of experience to solve the problem.

Durst: 00:08:15

And it's kind of lost traction that you have to be with the big bank.

Durst: 00:08:19

Um, because as we all know, all roads lead back to the same places, right.

Durst: 00:08:23

And then the changing in technology, you know, it's exciting what's

Durst: 00:08:27

happening with crypto and blockchain.

Durst: 00:08:31

And, um, NFTs and all the fun things that we're seeing evolve out of our.

Durst: 00:08:37

Ordinary business.

Durst: 00:08:38

And the traditional way of doing business is, is not there anymore.

Durst: 00:08:42

Well, it is, but it's changing.

Durst: 00:08:44

The looks are definitely changing.

huff: 00:08:46

It is definitely changing quickly.

huff: 00:08:48

One of , the key things that I've spent been spending a ton of time on, and I

huff: 00:08:53

would love to get, get both you and Kim's perspective on it is really how companies

huff: 00:09:00

are navigating this intersection of.

huff: 00:09:04

CFI and DeFI.

huff: 00:09:06

And for those out there that are listening or watching, uh, when I

huff: 00:09:09

say, CFI, that's centralized finance.

huff: 00:09:11

So think like the banks that Jody was just talking about and, and

huff: 00:09:15

the big companies that control a lot of the movement of everything.

huff: 00:09:18

And then you get into the DeFI, which is the decentralized finance like blockchain.

huff: 00:09:23

And you're hearing it called web three.

huff: 00:09:25

that encompasses crypto and NFTs and all the fun stuff,

huff: 00:09:28

Jody, that you just mentioned.

huff: 00:09:30

I maybe skipping ahead before for Kim has a chance, but like, I

huff: 00:09:33

would like to understand how, like, how you guys are navigating that

huff: 00:09:38

intersection between those two.

Durst: 00:09:41

Honestly, Tedd, I feel like we fell into it.

Durst: 00:09:44

You know, we, uh, have been working with a lot of developers

Durst: 00:09:47

and so we kind of fell into.

Durst: 00:09:49

it.

Durst: 00:09:50

You know, early on, we partnered up with dash many years ago to do some projects

Durst: 00:09:56

and just kind of it's flowed that way.

Durst: 00:09:59

And now even seeing the, our existing base and our clients coming

Durst: 00:10:03

to us with all these crazy ideas.

Durst: 00:10:05

Well, they're not crazy.

Durst: 00:10:06

They're actually super cool ideas and um, just flipping what we

Durst: 00:10:11

knew as traditional on its head.

Durst: 00:10:14

Super exciting.

Durst: 00:10:15

And, um, yeah, I, I would, I would love to say something else but we just

Durst: 00:10:20

kind of uh, it's where our path led.

Durst: 00:10:23

So I, I feel like we were early adopters into it.

Durst: 00:10:26

And so it's just a kind of attracted that.

Durst: 00:10:28

base.

huff: 00:10:29

Dash is actually here in my backyard here in the Phoenix area.

huff: 00:10:33

I'm happy to hear that, that you've had a chance to work with them and

huff: 00:10:36

I've had the opportunity to work with a number of startups that

huff: 00:10:39

have leveraged the dash platform.

huff: 00:10:40

And.

huff: 00:10:41

have actually gotten a couple of their grants, so totally understand

huff: 00:10:45

how, how, beneficial it can be to, to partner up with somebody like.

huff: 00:10:50

Kim.

huff: 00:10:50

What are your thoughts?

huff: 00:10:51

How are you feeling about all this stuff?

huff: 00:10:53

You're used to working with large national corporate accounts and the enterprise

huff: 00:10:57

level, how is this change impacting the conversations that you've been having or

huff: 00:11:04

have had over over the last couple years?

coley: 00:11:08

We do a lot in sports and a lot of these teams are feeling like

coley: 00:11:12

they're being left behind because they don't quite understand the new platforms

coley: 00:11:18

because everything's happening so fast.

coley: 00:11:20

And part of our job is to, I feel at least bring them back to, well, what do

coley: 00:11:25

you really hope to accomplish in this?

coley: 00:11:27

Because everybody wants to use an NFT, but do you wanna use an NFT as a digital.

coley: 00:11:33

Art, you know, or do you want to use it as a utility token?

coley: 00:11:37

Like what are you trying to do?

coley: 00:11:40

And it makes the clients have to go back and go, well, what am I

coley: 00:11:43

really trying to accomplish here?

coley: 00:11:45

Because once again, I hate to hammer this point home, but

coley: 00:11:48

it's different for everybody.

coley: 00:11:49

And I think people calm down a little bit when they understand, well, what's gonna

coley: 00:11:54

work for your platform or what type of business is it that you are trying to do?

coley: 00:11:58

Because again, one size doesn't fit all.

coley: 00:12:01

So I think that it's just really interesting to take a

coley: 00:12:04

step back and it's exciting.

coley: 00:12:05

And everybody wants to, do you wanna offer crypto as a form of payment

coley: 00:12:09

or do you need a trading platform?

coley: 00:12:11

It's just different every time.

coley: 00:12:13

And if you can kind of calm down because in the beginning I felt like things

coley: 00:12:16

were happening so fast and now I'm okay.

coley: 00:12:18

Cause I've been in the business so long that I.

coley: 00:12:22

I don't know everything, but guess what?

coley: 00:12:24

I know where to go to get the answers.

coley: 00:12:26

And I know the experts in each field and I, you can't be all things to all people.

coley: 00:12:30

You have to know where to go get the answers and say, Hey, we'll help

coley: 00:12:34

you get where you need to need to be, but let's get back on the GPS

coley: 00:12:37

and let's figure out a direct route.

coley: 00:12:39

Cause we might have to reroute a couple times.

coley: 00:12:42

Um, at this point we say, we're the queen of pivoting because

coley: 00:12:45

that's what you have to do.

coley: 00:12:47

Right.

huff: 00:12:48

No, that is awesome.

huff: 00:12:49

It's interesting.

huff: 00:12:50

You bring it up the way that you did, because a couple episodes ago, I had

huff: 00:12:55

Mark Thomas from Zen sports on, and we had a nice conversation about why they

huff: 00:13:00

decided to do their own token versus using an existing token in the market.

huff: 00:13:06

And the difference between the multiple types of tokens that they have.

huff: 00:13:10

And then at the same time, he was launching Sportstopia, a metaverse

huff: 00:13:15

project, um, with NFTs and a whole bunch of different things that are

huff: 00:13:19

really surrounded around the community.

huff: 00:13:21

So it's interesting to hear how others are thinking about it outside of the

huff: 00:13:26

sports book and the gaming side of the house, and, and really just seeing

huff: 00:13:31

how that, that is expanding outside of that sphere, where everybody's so

huff: 00:13:35

used to the e-sports and, and all of the technology plays Focusing in on it.

huff: 00:13:41

And it just, it sounds like you guys are starting to see that expand outside of

huff: 00:13:46

of the atypical marketplace like that,

coley: 00:13:50

we are like, you would never think a pizza place would say

coley: 00:13:53

we want our own NFT, but they do.

huff: 00:13:57

Give us an example of.

huff: 00:13:59

What was the driving force for, for them to want an NFT?, Was it FOMO?

huff: 00:14:05

Was it, they had a really cool idea.

huff: 00:14:08

What, what was like the driving force for a company, like a

huff: 00:14:11

pizza place to want in nft.

coley: 00:14:14

They're looking at new ways of marketing.

coley: 00:14:16

They're looking at new ways of bringing value.

coley: 00:14:19

And so if they can use it almost as a loyalty platform as well, if they

coley: 00:14:25

can use it to just make their brand.

coley: 00:14:27

Stand out.

coley: 00:14:28

It might be a very small project, but they have an NFT.

coley: 00:14:32

And you know what, if you're a 16 year old kid and it's your favorite pizza

coley: 00:14:35

place you might wanna share and show everybody that you have that NFT.

coley: 00:14:39

And we might not be able to understand it, but these kids coming up, I have

coley: 00:14:43

teenagers right now and oh my Lord.

coley: 00:14:46

They don't look at the world the same way that I do.

coley: 00:14:48

That's for sure.

Durst: 00:14:50

To expand onto that too, like our whole world has changed with

Durst: 00:14:54

the pandemic and the way that we do business and everybody's having to

Durst: 00:14:58

look to be more creative and, and get people back into their establishment.

Durst: 00:15:04

whether it's a restaurant, a sports team, whoever everybody's looking

Durst: 00:15:09

to earn that business back cuz people have been staying home.

Durst: 00:15:13

And so this gives them another way to create a VIP experience to, you know,

Durst: 00:15:18

market, to attract a loyal customer, um, pull in like in the sports arena.

Durst: 00:15:25

Sponsors together to work together to create an experience, because

Durst: 00:15:30

that is what is attracting people to come back is the experience.

Durst: 00:15:34

So this is, you know, a way to do it and you're right.

Durst: 00:15:37

It's, it's, it's blowing up into much more than just uh, traditional NFT.

Durst: 00:15:42

Now you're looking at AR VR technology and bringing that into place in the metaverse.

Durst: 00:15:48

So it's, it's really exciting.

Durst: 00:15:51

Um, and it's a great place to be right now.

huff: 00:15:54

As we look at all these options and all these different directions and

huff: 00:15:58

like yourself, the thing that's kept me in FinTech, the fact that it's ever evolving.

huff: 00:16:03

I almost go to the point of it's.

huff: 00:16:06

No longer evolving.

huff: 00:16:08

It's become more of a revolution than an evolution type scenario.

huff: 00:16:12

At least over the last three years, since the pandemic happened, it,

huff: 00:16:16

accelerated everything by so much.

huff: 00:16:20

But one of the things that that seems to have just gone crazy haywire

huff: 00:16:25

is that businesses have started to confuse activity for productivity and.

huff: 00:16:32

They aren't getting the results that they're hoping for.

huff: 00:16:35

And I know that that's one of the key focuses that you guys have

huff: 00:16:39

at ePaymints is is really, really helping that activity produce results.

huff: 00:16:44

And I would love to understand, how are you doing that?

huff: 00:16:47

Or what's the thought process behind that?

Durst: 00:16:50

One great example is the QR technology.

Durst: 00:16:53

We, for years and years wanted people to embrace the QR technology and

Durst: 00:16:58

it just did not get the adoption.

Durst: 00:17:00

And now through things like a shortage of workers, you've had to look for a

Durst: 00:17:04

different way to do business A way to do.

Durst: 00:17:07

Business more efficiently.

Durst: 00:17:08

That's one example I can think of right off the top of my head is

Durst: 00:17:12

just, we've had to embrace different technologies and make them be productive.

Durst: 00:17:16

cuz you're working with less assets than you had in the past.

huff: 00:17:19

Kim, your thoughts on, using activity to produce results

huff: 00:17:23

versus just doing it to do it, I

coley: 00:17:25

and so we work with a really interesting AI platform.

coley: 00:17:29

And once again, back to the pandemic, it's very hard bringing people back to work.

coley: 00:17:35

And so they are deploying virtual assistance.

coley: 00:17:39

And so you've got a gap between the younger generation that is fine

coley: 00:17:45

putting their financial information in a phone and working with a chat bot,

coley: 00:17:50

cuz they don't wanna talk to anybody.

coley: 00:17:51

Whereas you have my parents that still want to talk to someone and

coley: 00:17:56

they are not going to just put their financial information into a technology.

coley: 00:18:02

Not knowing if it's a real person there, you can use recap some of

coley: 00:18:06

these different technologies, but it's funny because, but then the

coley: 00:18:09

younger generation, they don't care.

coley: 00:18:11

They wanna get it done quickly.

coley: 00:18:12

They don't wanna look up from their phone to have to go do something.

coley: 00:18:16

They don't wanna talk to anybody.

coley: 00:18:18

So seeing that and seeing what is coming in to fill the gaps is very interesting.

huff: 00:18:24

you bring something up that, and I was just, I was

huff: 00:18:26

reading a book this weekend that, described it as the millennial

huff: 00:18:31

generation and younger are true.

huff: 00:18:34

Digital natives.

huff: 00:18:35

They don't know what it's like to not have the internet.

huff: 00:18:39

They don't know what it's like to not have most of their life be self serve.

huff: 00:18:45

And then you have the generations prior to that, which were called, um,

huff: 00:18:50

digital immigrants, uh, which I thought was quite interesting because really,

huff: 00:18:54

they've gone from a experience that was all very tactile, very person to

huff: 00:19:00

person, very face to face, real time.

huff: 00:19:04

in real life type face to face type scenarios that are now.

huff: 00:19:09

Finding out, especially with the pandemic, like what we just talked

huff: 00:19:12

about that you can't always have that face to face interaction and

huff: 00:19:16

that you have to immigrate over to the digital land in order to really

huff: 00:19:21

figure out how to keep moving forward.

huff: 00:19:24

And.

huff: 00:19:26

Not be left behind.

huff: 00:19:27

the other piece that, that really comes to mind for me on that one, and I would

huff: 00:19:30

love to get both of your perspectives is.

huff: 00:19:33

Does that open up some underserved markets, maybe from, a regulatory

huff: 00:19:40

perspective that you are capitalizing on.

huff: 00:19:44

Or maybe even just from a, solutions perspective that, that have really

huff: 00:19:50

come to light that maybe because of had the pandemic not happened, that

huff: 00:19:55

you wouldn't even thought twice?

coley: 00:19:57

Interesting.

coley: 00:19:58

Um, Well, I'll take that one back to the AI for a minute, because

coley: 00:20:03

they're trying to serve across so many different generations.

coley: 00:20:07

And so where I might not want to go in, for instance, in an in vitro fertilization

coley: 00:20:12

clinic and type in when they're talking about all the different procedures,

coley: 00:20:17

but they've put, allow now video.

coley: 00:20:20

So there's different things where if you don't understand what a certain

coley: 00:20:23

procedure is, instead of getting someone on the phone and being slow, you can

coley: 00:20:27

go, you can watch that video before you make a decision, you can say,

coley: 00:20:31

okay, what am I really talking about here to get people more evolved into,

coley: 00:20:36

is this the right appointment for me?

coley: 00:20:38

I mean, this is talking back to appointment setting 1 0 1, but if they're

coley: 00:20:42

making, bringing value to you where you have to pay to actually go in and then

coley: 00:20:47

sit down with the doctor, at least at that point, they're making you do your

coley: 00:20:51

own homework to realize, okay, I'm not just putting in here with a chat bot.

coley: 00:20:55

I'm gonna go back.

coley: 00:20:56

I can watch the videos.

coley: 00:20:57

I can truly understand what I want.

coley: 00:20:59

So I think it's helping people define their own journey.

huff: 00:21:04

No, that's fantastic.

huff: 00:21:05

Jo.

huff: 00:21:06

What, what, what I, I could, I could see the wheels spinning.

huff: 00:21:09

So I'm I'm excited.

huff: 00:21:11

to, I'm excited to hear what what you were thinking about there.

Durst: 00:21:14

I'm just thinking about it in both ways.

Durst: 00:21:16

Like I have seen it, you know, in traditional markets where you're seeing

Durst: 00:21:19

them embrace technology, like even at eye clinic with kiosks and different

Durst: 00:21:24

things that you just never would see happen are happening, you know?

Durst: 00:21:29

But then on the flip side, you're also seeing, Technology

Durst: 00:21:33

not being the important thing.

Durst: 00:21:35

It's going back to that v i p experience, you know, the, relationship.

Durst: 00:21:39

So you're seeing, it's kind of bipolar.

Durst: 00:21:43

You're seeing it go in both directions.

Durst: 00:21:45

You're

coley: 00:21:46

Yeah, for sure.

Durst: 00:21:48

being embraced places.

Durst: 00:21:49

You would never expect it to be embraced.

Durst: 00:21:51

And then you're seeing old school like, oh, wow.

Durst: 00:21:55

Uh, you know, smile, a handshake, you know, a relationship is

Durst: 00:21:59

important again Cause people have missed that human touch too.

Durst: 00:22:03

So it's, it's pretty, pretty interesting.

huff: 00:22:09

So I, I'm I'm gonna just, I'm gonna spin back here real quick.

huff: 00:22:13

Are there markets that you see as underserved that, that you're really,

huff: 00:22:18

he really helping, maybe not in the traditional payment acceptance space, but

huff: 00:22:23

really helping them move forward and, and gain generalize acceptance with, fintech?

Durst: 00:22:31

we're definitely seeing different ways to embrace things in

Durst: 00:22:34

markets that haven't been embraced before.

Durst: 00:22:36

You know, we're working on some interesting.

Durst: 00:22:38

projects.

Durst: 00:22:39

Around payouts and, the barrier of entry that we've seen, just, sending

Durst: 00:22:43

money to other countries and, and using crypto or something like that to do it.

Durst: 00:22:49

So just embracing those technologies in a different way too.

huff: 00:22:55

So I'm gonna drop a small hint.

huff: 00:22:56

I've been trying to get you to talk about cannabis like four times.

huff: 00:22:59

So, um, so

Durst: 00:23:04

I didn't know you going with that

coley: 00:23:07

Sex, Drugs and Rock n Roll.

huff: 00:23:10

because, because, we all know that like cannabis businesses

huff: 00:23:14

are legal on the state level.

huff: 00:23:15

Right.

huff: 00:23:16

And.

huff: 00:23:18

Although they're legal to state level.

huff: 00:23:19

They have all of this extra work that they have to do.

huff: 00:23:22

They're still a very cash heavy organization.

huff: 00:23:26

And a lot of times they have nowhere to put the cash.

huff: 00:23:28

Right.

huff: 00:23:29

And, I had the opportunity to speak on a panel with Sunday

huff: 00:23:32

Seari, um, a couple years ago.

huff: 00:23:35

And we really got in diving into the cannabis banking and all the rules

huff: 00:23:39

and the regulations and, I've had the opportunity to really help a lot.

huff: 00:23:43

Businesses, as it opens up in the recreational space across the country.

huff: 00:23:48

And I noticed in some of the things that I did in my research

huff: 00:23:51

that you guys are starting to play a little bit in that space.

huff: 00:23:55

And I'm just kind of, I was trying to like nudge in that direction.

huff: 00:23:58

I didn't do a very good job, but

huff: 00:23:59

like

coley: 00:24:00

talk

coley: 00:24:01

Cannabis!

Durst: 00:24:02

Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll start that off.

Durst: 00:24:03

And we

Durst: 00:24:04

can, you can cut together

huff: 00:24:08

well, then we can get to the rock and roll after

Durst: 00:24:09

Yeah, exactly.

Durst: 00:24:10

Maybe leave the sex out, but sex, drugs and Rock n Roll.

Durst: 00:24:15

Um,

huff: 00:24:16

Oh, you're trying to get me in trouble, Jody.

Durst: 00:24:20

Uh, Tedd.

Durst: 00:24:21

I think we, uh, for some reason, when we first came into our company, we

Durst: 00:24:25

played a lot in the high risk space.

Durst: 00:24:27

And, um, we do have an investor that actually is in the insurance space.

Durst: 00:24:33

that he owns an insurance carrier and some boutiquey insurance companies,

Durst: 00:24:37

and he was the first to bring property and workman's comp to cannabis space.

Durst: 00:24:42

So Kim and I kind of fell into cannabis.

Durst: 00:24:45

Right from the beginning, looking for a solution that is as you

Durst: 00:24:48

know, completely cash driven.

Durst: 00:24:51

Um, and that has been a a change in mindset too.

Durst: 00:24:55

And, uh, we had to look for a solution not only for traditional banking, cuz

Durst: 00:25:00

they needed a place to put the money, but they needed a way to accept payments

Durst: 00:25:05

that wasn't just, uh, taking cash.

Durst: 00:25:08

So that led into crypto and some interesting solutions, but

Durst: 00:25:13

we have kind of embraced that space uh, since almost day one.

Durst: 00:25:18

So we've been in the cannabis space, but just even seeing that evolved

Durst: 00:25:21

and even taking into some of the things that we've been talking about

Durst: 00:25:25

NFTs and crypto were all coming into play in in that space as well.

Durst: 00:25:30

And, um, not only from security measure.

Durst: 00:25:34

cuz you've gotta get that ,that cash out of the store to

Durst: 00:25:38

um, looking for new, innovative ways to, to be in the space.

coley: 00:25:43

Yeah, it's fun.

coley: 00:25:44

Well, and, and I think that everyone's trying to offer them.

coley: 00:25:48

This is at least has been one of the taglines that offer them the

coley: 00:25:52

traditional business services that everyone else has access to.

coley: 00:25:57

So we still find them.

coley: 00:25:59

Dealing with compliance yet at the end of the day, they still want their E R P or

coley: 00:26:04

their CRM, or a point of sale to tie into a terminal and a certain functionality.

coley: 00:26:10

So it comes back to the basics for every business.

coley: 00:26:13

And so that's been a challenge, um, trying to fight for these.

coley: 00:26:19

Clients of ours to get them a solution.

coley: 00:26:22

That's going to really help them.

coley: 00:26:24

When in that industry, if we think everything's changing in FinTech,

coley: 00:26:28

like something we could talk about today, by the time we publish this,

coley: 00:26:30

everything could change with it.

coley: 00:26:32

The rails might be different.

coley: 00:26:34

There might be a new functionality.

coley: 00:26:36

And with these guys, it's, you're still dealing with the regulations, So it

coley: 00:26:40

isn't just does the technology work.

coley: 00:26:42

It's like.

coley: 00:26:43

It does.

coley: 00:26:44

And it can, but are you in a state where it's truly compliant?

coley: 00:26:50

Is it medicinal?

coley: 00:26:51

Is it rec there's so many different guidelines and navigating those waters,

coley: 00:26:55

I think has been difficult for everybody,

huff: 00:26:58

That it has I that many, many conversations and.

huff: 00:27:01

what's funny is that you guys mentioned the insurance and workman's comp and

huff: 00:27:05

all that stuff on the side of the house.

huff: 00:27:07

And I've had the opportunity to work with the payroll side of the house,

huff: 00:27:10

which is just as complicated when you're trying to manage all the staff.

huff: 00:27:15

And you're trying to make sure that the cash gets converted and, oh my goodness.

huff: 00:27:19

It is, it is quite interesting in that space.

huff: 00:27:22

I wanna kind of just open it up because we've, we've talked about a lot of

huff: 00:27:26

stuff and some of it I didn't expect to.

huff: 00:27:28

So, um, it's all.

huff: 00:27:31

It's all good.

huff: 00:27:31

It's all good.

huff: 00:27:32

But is there anything that that we haven't talked about that you're like

huff: 00:27:36

Tedd, I really wanna make sure that, the people watching and listening

huff: 00:27:40

really know this about, us, about the company, about the technology

huff: 00:27:45

that maybe I haven't touched on.

Durst: 00:27:48

I, I have a few things that come to mind.

Durst: 00:27:49

I

huff: 00:27:50

Yeah.

Durst: 00:27:51

I mean, the elephant in the room that we are a female ran FinTech,

Durst: 00:27:56

which is pretty original in the space.

Durst: 00:27:58

is still.

Durst: 00:27:59

a very.

Durst: 00:27:59

Male dominated space.

Durst: 00:28:01

So the fact that we are completely female run, it makes us unique.

Durst: 00:28:06

And then, um, I also think, you know, we've structured, ePaymints

Durst: 00:28:10

a little little differently in the sense that we view it as a platform, a

Durst: 00:28:14

platform to make change in the world.

Durst: 00:28:16

And we're trying to do good with this platform, not just in the

Durst: 00:28:20

traditional sense, but seeing where we can help and and make a

Durst: 00:28:23

change if it's from, being a good.

Durst: 00:28:26

Shepherd to, an employee or to, changing people's lives in the way that they're

Durst: 00:28:32

compensated and kind of having that family approach towards business that we're

Durst: 00:28:37

trying to change lives person by person.

Durst: 00:28:41

So I think that is one thing that makes us unique in the marketplace.

coley: 00:28:45

We want to empower people.

coley: 00:28:48

And now that I'm a little bit older, I can say that I used to think

coley: 00:28:51

that I had to know everything.

coley: 00:28:54

and I know a lot of people will be paralyzed when they feel that, oh, this

coley: 00:28:59

is too much information for me to know.

coley: 00:29:01

And what we like to tell people is even being in the business, as long as we have,

coley: 00:29:05

we don't know everything because of the fast pace that everything is changing.

coley: 00:29:10

And so we wanna empower people that you don't have to know everything.

coley: 00:29:14

You just put a good team in place and we're women.

coley: 00:29:17

So we'll nurture you we'll hold your hand.

coley: 00:29:19

We'll get it done, but we want love to see, because I think when everybody

coley: 00:29:23

succeeds and wins, then it's such a good feeling and you radiate that and then

coley: 00:29:27

you're gonna go out and help someone else.

coley: 00:29:30

And so it is kind of the pay it forward thing.

coley: 00:29:33

another thing that we've been doing is when somebody needs an

coley: 00:29:36

idea to keep moving forward, we're tying in the charity aspect to it.

coley: 00:29:41

We're tying into, Hey, if you think this is a mundane business, but

coley: 00:29:45

you've gotta get certain things done.

coley: 00:29:47

Well, what would excite.

coley: 00:29:48

Would it be you about this?

coley: 00:29:49

Would it be to add a new project?

coley: 00:29:51

Would it be to give a percentage if we made a donation on your behalf or tie,

coley: 00:29:56

you know, tie just creative aspects into the traditional business realm.

coley: 00:30:02

And so I think that that's where we're having a lot of fun now.

huff: 00:30:06

That is awesome.

huff: 00:30:07

I love the idea of, of bringing that, purpose driven focus and then enabling

huff: 00:30:12

that creativity to really bring things forward and and into the marketplace.

huff: 00:30:16

That is definitely a unique perspective.

huff: 00:30:19

I've spoken to so many.

huff: 00:30:21

Women founders of of companies so I didn't even think twice about, about it being

huff: 00:30:27

a a women led company, but you're right.

huff: 00:30:29

It is a very male dominated, culture.

huff: 00:30:32

and definitely.

huff: 00:30:33

I applaud both of you for, for diving into, an environment that is as such.

huff: 00:30:38

The company has a podcast called the number one thing.

huff: 00:30:43

What is the number one thing that has helped you in your business from

huff: 00:30:49

having that as part of your experience?

Durst: 00:30:54

It's been instrumental in, in, for me personally, I'm like,

Durst: 00:30:58

it it was really a stretch outside of what I was comfortable with and and it

Durst: 00:31:03

goes back to that lesson to step out in fear and you'll be blessed, you know,

Durst: 00:31:08

and just hearing everybody's stories.

Durst: 00:31:10

So the one thing is, you know, we're asking people advice.

Durst: 00:31:15

for other, you know, business owners, other people out there from every

Durst: 00:31:19

walk of life, from a musician to an athlete, to a business owner and, and

Durst: 00:31:24

just everybody's journey is the same in some regards, but so different.

Durst: 00:31:29

And that We're much more alike than we are different.

Durst: 00:31:33

And, knowing what we've went through over these past seven years is so normal too.

Durst: 00:31:39

like everybody had that, that same struggle to get to where they're

Durst: 00:31:43

going and, that sense of community.

Durst: 00:31:45

So it's, been so valuable.

huff: 00:31:47

Has it given you any insights into your business

huff: 00:31:51

specifically, other than the general pieces, that's like something.

huff: 00:31:54

you're.

huff: 00:31:54

I'm gonna change the way that I'm doing this in the company, because of

huff: 00:31:58

something that I heard or something that was said, versus I I understand

huff: 00:32:02

the community piece of it, but I, I'm looking for like that, that thing

huff: 00:32:06

that made you take action that you.

huff: 00:32:08

heard.

coley: 00:32:09

Well, for me personally, what it made me realize is that I can't

coley: 00:32:15

separate work from my personal life in a sense it needs to be, you have

coley: 00:32:22

to have passion and it needs to be something that you love doing because

coley: 00:32:26

your work life becomes your family.

coley: 00:32:28

When you're running your own company, all founders.

coley: 00:32:32

The thing that keeps them going is their why, which is usually

coley: 00:32:36

their families, you know?

coley: 00:32:40

and then it's the community like Jody and I, for instance, being business

coley: 00:32:44

partners, we work on our relationship.

coley: 00:32:47

Like it's a second marriage in a sense.

coley: 00:32:50

because, you know, you want to be happy.

coley: 00:32:53

You want to be fulfilled if people aren't doing those things, but we're

coley: 00:32:56

raking in the dollars, you know, because we're just offering every solution out

coley: 00:33:00

there and we're all over the place.

coley: 00:33:01

It's like, that's not what makes you feel good at the end of the day?

coley: 00:33:04

There was a quote.

coley: 00:33:05

I just read recently from, um, Jim Carey that said, I wish that everybody

coley: 00:33:09

would have every dream come true and make all the money they ever wanted to

coley: 00:33:13

make, to realize that's not the answer.

coley: 00:33:16

And so I think that if we can bring it back to the process the day to day, you're

coley: 00:33:21

never gonna hit that destination and there's room at the plateau for everybody.

coley: 00:33:26

So it's that you have to be happy in the process or why are you doing it?

Durst: 00:33:31

that is the reason we created.

Durst: 00:33:33

The one thing, you know, it was such a dark place in, in our world at

Durst: 00:33:37

that time that we wanted to bring something inspiring out to the world.

Durst: 00:33:41

I think the other thing it taught me is not to be afraid.

Durst: 00:33:44

I know Kim made reference that we call ourselves the queens of Pivoting, but

Durst: 00:33:49

not being afraid of that pivot too.

Durst: 00:33:51

Like we have had to pivot so much and not be afraid of failure.

Durst: 00:33:56

You know, there's probably projects that we wanted to roll out, that

Durst: 00:33:59

we had a little fear in in doing, and now I feel like we walk out

Durst: 00:34:03

greater and we're not afraid if we fall off that ledge, we'll be okay.

huff: 00:34:07

you'd mentioned that you've, you've had to pivot a number of times and

huff: 00:34:11

you had mentioned that it took courage.

huff: 00:34:16

I'm using different words but you.

huff: 00:34:18

You mentioned it took courage and strength to make that that happen.

huff: 00:34:23

How certain were you that was the right pivot?

huff: 00:34:26

How did you, you two come together and go, yep.

huff: 00:34:30

This is what we have to do.

huff: 00:34:32

Or was it one of those you know, hold on for dear life and, and

huff: 00:34:39

and pray, pray for the best.

Durst: 00:34:41

I think what what comes with age is being able to trust your

Durst: 00:34:45

gut and your intuition, you know, especially as a female, I think.

Durst: 00:34:49

we have A little kind of superpower and intuition and, and we have learned

Durst: 00:34:55

to like, have that conversation.

Durst: 00:34:57

What do you really feel in your gut Kim?

Durst: 00:34:59

And we have, we talk it through and if we both feel in our gut

Durst: 00:35:03

that that's the right move.

Durst: 00:35:04

We go.

Durst: 00:35:05

We move and we trust ourselves so much more than we did 10 years ago.

Durst: 00:35:10

And some of that has spun on of failure.

Durst: 00:35:12

Like we have failed, you know, we talk about this all the time that everybody

Durst: 00:35:16

talks about the beginning and in, but nobody talks about the in between.

Durst: 00:35:20

And I'm like

huff: 00:35:21

the messy

Durst: 00:35:22

Middle

Durst: 00:35:22

the messy

Durst: 00:35:23

middle.

Durst: 00:35:23

Oh my God.

Durst: 00:35:25

Have we failed?

Durst: 00:35:26

But out of every failure has burst something beautiful.

Durst: 00:35:29

So, yeah.

coley: 00:35:31

And being able to say, what have we learned from this?

coley: 00:35:35

Okay.

coley: 00:35:35

So this didn't work out quite the way we thought, what have we learned?

huff: 00:35:41

if you were to take one of those items in that messy middle,

huff: 00:35:44

and you said, this is the thing this right here, Tedd I'm handing to you,

huff: 00:35:47

this is the thing that I learned the most from what would that be?

huff: 00:35:52

And

huff: 00:35:53

why did you learn so much?

huff: 00:35:54

from it?

Durst: 00:35:55

You know, I, I think the thing that pops out in my mind is we

Durst: 00:35:58

went back to what we were good at.

Durst: 00:36:00

You know, what made us for the last 20 plus years successful and went

Durst: 00:36:05

back to what made us successful and and then worked out from that and

Durst: 00:36:12

built the passion piece into it.

Durst: 00:36:14

And what was the bigger picture of why we get up every morning and why

Durst: 00:36:19

you work crazy hours and have no life, you know, and, and what are

Durst: 00:36:24

you really trying to accomplish?

Durst: 00:36:26

And so we went back to what felt good.

Durst: 00:36:29

What came natural and, and built off that.

coley: 00:36:33

We always joke.

coley: 00:36:33

One of our mentors used to say, On trucking, keep on trucking.

coley: 00:36:38

So just keep moving forward.

coley: 00:36:40

You can't sit and say like, oh, I missed those past seven free throws,

coley: 00:36:45

but I gotta make the eighth when thinking of it, why you didn't make

coley: 00:36:48

it, you just have to move forward

huff: 00:36:50

Ladies, I I really appreciate you taking the time out today.

huff: 00:36:53

And I know I went on a whole bunch of different tangents.

huff: 00:36:56

Uh, I really appreciate the insight in, into the way that you guys do

huff: 00:37:00

business, the way that you think about business, how you approach things.

huff: 00:37:04

Um, and it definitely is unique to many people that I've talked to.

huff: 00:37:09

So I really appreciate you hopping on, um, I would love for you to share like

huff: 00:37:14

the best way to find out more about ePaymints and, and what we can do to

huff: 00:37:20

help you drive your mission forward.

Durst: 00:37:23

The best way to find this is social media, our website, you

Durst: 00:37:27

know, um, our podcast, the one thing.

Durst: 00:37:30

uh, Those are the normal channels you would see.

huff: 00:37:34

I will make sure that those are in the show notes also in the

huff: 00:37:37

descriptions and all that fun stuff.

huff: 00:37:39

So every, would be able to get to your social, the podcast,

huff: 00:37:43

the website, all that fun stuff.

huff: 00:37:45

How can they help you move your mission forward?

Durst: 00:37:48

I would say A fresh approach to payments that is our tagline.

Durst: 00:37:52

And if you want to have a different experience and you want to be

Durst: 00:37:56

a part of something larger than just, um, how the flow of your,

Durst: 00:38:01

your traditional business works.

Durst: 00:38:03

I think we're the, the right solution.

Durst: 00:38:06

And, um, we always tease if, if it's something difficult, bring it to us.

Durst: 00:38:11

Because that's what we love to get in there where it's

Durst: 00:38:13

messy and, and make it flow.

coley: 00:38:18

And we usually will ask clients for a wishlist.

coley: 00:38:20

You know, what do you wanna see happen?

coley: 00:38:23

We'll try and knock off as many of those items, but what's gonna make you happy.

coley: 00:38:27

And how do you need this to function and give us your wishlist and we'll go

coley: 00:38:31

see what we can make happen with that.

huff: 00:38:34

That is awesome you're making dreams come true.

huff: 00:38:37

Thank you so much for joining today.

huff: 00:38:40

I really appreciate it.

huff: 00:38:41

I look forward to seeing ePaymints continue to grow and excited

huff: 00:38:46

to see, what is the next big thing that you all decide to do?

Durst: 00:38:50

Sure.

Durst: 00:38:51

Thank you,

Durst: 00:38:51

Tedd.