Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:00:00

It's your time and you have

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:00:03

earned it, you should own it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:00:05

And I think that unlimited time doesn't exist.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:00:10

It's the only thing we have that is finite in a number of days.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:01:39

Rob welcome to the show.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:01:41

So happy to have you on and to learn more about PTO exchange

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:01:47

Thanks for having me.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:01:48

I'm really happy to be on your program.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:01:51

Feel like I've been here before.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:01:53

oh my goodness.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:01:55

We've had a lot of fun getting this thing up and going, so I appreciate your

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:01:58

patience and, and, all the fun stuff.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:00

Technology is great when it works.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:03

So, uh, we've got to work in, so that's good.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:05

Good news.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:08

Talk to you about PTO exchange and just myself, you know,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:11

I'm that typical American that over the years is loved a lot.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:16

And I mean, a lot of my, a lot of PTO on the table each year.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:20

And even in some cases I lost it because that was the company's policy.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:24

He was use it or lose it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:27

This is really what has me

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:29

excited.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:31

How you're putting the power of unused PTO back into the hands of

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:35

the employees, which I think is really, really cool initiative.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:02:39

You've got going.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:02:41

No, it's, it's actually great.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:02:43

In fact, uh, that experience that you went through is exactly how the idea

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:02:47

was germinated, uh, from my dinner table where, um, a few of us left

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:02:52

Cisco and got a big check, walking out the door from a crude pizza.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:02:56

And we were thinking, why couldn't we use this for something different?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:02:59

And, um, and that was the light bulb moment.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:03:03

Um, and then we just started to work on it and we realized that, you know,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:03:07

this accrued paid time off, um, that is earned and their earned wages.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:03:13

Um, it should be, uh, actually self-directed, you should have

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:03:17

the ability to self directed for good services and experience.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:03:21

And that was kind of the conversation at the table that we started to have.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:03:25

Uh, and then we just looked at how big the problem was and.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:03:31

funny when you start, come up with an idea and then you start doing the

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:03:33

research of, is there a real problem here?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:03:37

And it starts to resonate with people like yourself that just went or went

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:03:42

through an experience just like mine.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:03:43

And, um, and so that's how the company kind of got started.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:03:49

Um, at least the idea, anyhow.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:03:52

So Rob, you've been a serial

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:03:54

entrepreneur for, for well over 25 years.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:03:57

Can you talk about how that timeline and experience Got you

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:04:01

positioned to start PTO exchange.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:04:03

I know it started at a kitchen table, but there's gotta be a lot of things

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:04:06

in the background that just really sets you up for success with PTO exchange.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:11

Well, so this is my it's my fourth

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:14

company, uh, that I've started and it's my third software company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:20

But, uh, usually what, at least in the prior experiences, um, I was coming

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:28

at it from, uh, I wasn't in the.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:30

Ted.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:31

So I, in all the companies that I've started, I was never a part of the

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:35

industry until I started the company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:37

And, uh, I have an accounting background.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:40

So I always view, uh, everything in kind of this financial or

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:45

balance sheet type of, um, lens.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:49

And so.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:51

When I start these things, I really just look at it from what accompanied by

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:56

this, uh, what's the value we're driving.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:04:58

And after this, you know, dinner, we had, um, I started to just

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:05

roughly do the numbers in my head.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:07

Uh, just how much money I made and then how many people leave companies

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:13

and how much money is, is being lost and, or, um, not utilized.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:19

And I kept waking up at night, Ted.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:23

I kept waking up at night thinking this is a really, really big.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:27

Um, and then we, and this is back in 2013 when we started the company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:32

So it was a long time ago.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:34

Um, and it took us about four or five years working on other jobs and kind of

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:39

doing this in the evening, uh, kind of our side hustle and, um, and making it happen.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:45

But we went to the travel association back in 2013.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:51

And started to talk to them about all of this time that was being

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:54

lost and the dollars behind it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:05:57

And then they kicked off something called the project time off and really started

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:06:01

to do the analysis around the numbers.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:06:03

And, uh, but the first numbers they received were ours that we, that I

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:06:08

had done it, uh, at my kitchen table, um, running, you know, We're running

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:06:16

numbers on, you know, employees in the United States, how much time

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:06:19

they would accrue how much, uh, and it was an enormous amount of money

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:06:24

that was being accrued, but also being, um, lost, uh, by employees.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:06:31

So at what point, so at what point did,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:06:34

did you go from the idea to, to maybe, maybe we'll talk about an idea to assigned

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:06:41

client to an actual product, or maybe even it's it's idea, product client?

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:06:47

I don't know.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:06:48

How, how did that turn out for you?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:06:50

It, it, it, things don't happen

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:06:53

overnight when you start a company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:06:56

Uh, everyone thinks that the company went from zero to a hundred miles

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:00

an hour in a year or two years.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:02

And, and in 90% of all companies, that is not the scenario.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:09

Um, you know, we, we had the idea.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:13

We saw that there was a market, uh, and then we kind of ran up and get this.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:17

There's a lot of regulations in this market.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:20

Like there is a lot of regulatory, uh, with the department of labor,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:24

with deferred comp and things like this that we did not know about

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:28

when the idea was germinated.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:31

Um, we learned about that about 18 months in.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:35

Um, and it was probably 12 months after we started the company itself.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:41

And so you just, again, you learn so much along the way.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:45

And I think that thing about starting companies, as far as an entrepreneur, all

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:50

you're doing is solving one problem after the other, when you're building a company

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:55

and that's really what we were doing.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:07:57

And, you know, we got our first customer back in 2016.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:02

Um, Because it was a new idea.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:05

Nobody was like, you know, are you crazy?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:07

You can actually do this.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:09

Um,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:10

we're a little crazy.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:10

Yeah.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:11

Uh, that's, that's pretty normal.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:13

Uh, but, but it wasn't until really the end of 2017 that we launched on

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:19

a kind of more commercial basis where we had, you know, three customers.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:24

It had been vetted.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:26

We were SOC two compliance, so we could deal with large enterprises.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:31

Um, and that's when we launched it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:33

The HR tech show in 2017.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:08:35

You mentioned all these hurdles,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:08:37

reg regulatory, financial, just understanding the business piece of it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:08:43

Can you let's talk about with learning all of that, how you're

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:08:47

redefining the perspective and just redefining PTO in general.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:52

A lot of people say that just like

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:54

what you said, you're redefining it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:08:55

And we are, um, I didn't think about that when we started the company, that's

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:00

obviously not how I was approaching it, but we did feel like there should

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:03

be ownership, um, by the employee.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:08

And, and I still believe that.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:10

I think it's, uh, like I said, it's an earned wage.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:14

You should be able to self-direct it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:16

You should be able to utilize it, um, to, to your value as the employee.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:23

Um, and I think that ownership or that, um, that ability

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:29

to self-direct flexibility.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:32

Um, type of mode.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:34

I think that's kind of built into how people look at buying

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:39

things now, uh, from Amazon.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:41

I mean, we, we just get online and we buy things and you have this flexibility.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:45

And I think what we're doing is taking paid time off and the value of that and

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:50

giving employees the ability to, to have.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:53

Amazon is like experience, um, where you find, if there's something that finds

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:09:58

value that you find value, you should be able to use your PTO to, to do that.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:10:03

You just hit on something, you know,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:10:04

your, your accounting background probably follows it falls into this a lot more than

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:10:09

your traditional, you know, business or sales type driven or started company, or

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:10:14

even a technology leader started company.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:10:18

You know, you talked about most employers and even yourself

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:10:21

think of PTO is a differ cash compensation, but employees generally.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:10:28

Don't think about it that way until they decide to leave a company or have

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:10:31

been terminated and then get the check.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:10:33

Like you were just talking about, talk about how, by changing this perspective

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:10:40

at the employee, that you've, how is this changing the employee's

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:10:47

perspective, how this is creating equity and inclusion for all the

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:10:52

workers that, that may have felt left.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:10:56

Well, when you think about.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:10:59

Equality and inclusion, um, as just an, a, a company environment.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:05

Really, what you're trying to do is make sure that people there, the individual,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:10

the individual, um, is supported through their life's transitions.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:15

And what I mean by this Ted is that every there's there's five

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:19

generations in the workforce.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:21

It's crazy.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:22

Five generations, every generation has different needs and every

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:27

generation is going through their own life cycle in the company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:32

And how do you, uh, as an employer support those, uh, employees,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:39

uh, through those different life transitions, meaning equality, right?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:43

How do you give, you know, Someone like the gen Z is the ability

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:47

to pay down their student loans.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:48

So we're gonna, we're going to help gen Z pay down their student loans, but then

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:52

you have the, the baby boomers who are going well, I don't have student loans.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:56

Why don't I w what's the benefit to me?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:11:59

Well, that's not equality.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:01

And what we believe is that you should be able to give let's just say it's

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:05

$500, $500 to your workforce, and they should be able to self-direct it

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:10

in a way that's beneficial to them.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:13

And that's really what we're doing for PTO.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:16

Whereas you could allow a week of PTO to be self-directed to pay down your

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:21

student loan, or maybe for the baby boomer it's to put it in their 401k for them.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:26

And, and that ability to self-direct and that ability to say, Hey, I want

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:31

a flexible benefit that supports me in my life's transitions.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:35

Um, it really helps build that equality and inclusion.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:39

Right.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:39

So now the baby boomers feel like they're included just like the gen Zs.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:43

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:44

And, and that's really what we're doing.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:46

We're, we're giving employees the ability to, to, you know, again,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:12:51

self-direct meet them where they're at.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:12:54

Over the last two and a half years,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:12:56

it's been very interesting to say the least, how have you seen the pandemic?

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:13:02

The great resignation really impact the perception of PTO for,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:13:08

for all five of those groups.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:13:10

You can pick one or you can pick all of them.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:13:13

Um, but I can imagine that the perception of PTO has completely changed.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:18

Yeah, it has.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:19

Um, I'll give you, uh, I'll give you a number of examples

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:22

just from our customers.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:24

We, so we signed a large hospital.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:28

They came to us and said through the pandemic, our employees have

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:32

not been able to take time off.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:35

We have $50 million above and beyond what we usually have accrued

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:41

on the books as a liability.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:43

And we can not just wipe this.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:46

You know, these people are gonna lose this money because.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:51

You know, we have this policy that they're going to be losing it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:54

And so we're going to extend it this year, but we need to get them to use it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:13:58

And so what they did is they launched in, it was mid-October I believe.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:04

And they opened it up so people could cash out for Christmas,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:07

um, and get down to a limit.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:09

And so they turned this on and boy, we moved millions of dollars to

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:14

those employees to benefit them.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:16

So.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:18

Uh, you know, a nurse that couldn't take time off because they're at

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:20

the bedside for the COVID patients was able to get value out of that

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:26

paid time off that was accrued.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:28

And they said it, it made a huge difference for morale, um,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:32

within the organization that.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:34

They as an organization, weren't going to just wipe this off.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:38

They were going to give them another way to use that benefit.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:41

So that's one, you know, you think of one way we did it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:45

Um, we actually allow people to share their PTO.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:48

So

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:49

That's cool.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:50

yeah.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:50

So in case it's, um, like a Metro.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:53

Um, pool where let's say you got sick with COVID, you took all your

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:14:58

time off and now your child got sick and you needed more time off.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:15:01

Well, during those times of COVID and during the pandemic, we had

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:15:07

large organizations coming to us saying, Hey, we want more.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:15:11

We want to build more community and allow people to share their PTO one company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:15:16

Came to us and said, you know, let's do this.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:15:19

We, we lit it up.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:15:20

And I think it was two weeks.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:15:21

We lit it up really quick for form.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:15:23

And the CEO was able to give his PTO into that pool.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:15:29

And he said, it made a huge difference to the workforce, knowing that the

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:15:34

CEO was giving up his time, your most intimate thing, right time.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:15:38

That's the only thing you have is time.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:15:40

And he gave it to him and that helped a lot of the rank and file.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:15:45

These are a lot of creative ways

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:15:48

that people are using their PTO.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:15:50

If you had to pick one, just one, cause I know you got a whole bunch

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:15:53

of these, but if you had to pick just one as being that most creative

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:15:58

use of PTO, what would it be?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:01

The most creative use of, I

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:02

mean, obviously we cash out, but that's not very creative.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:05

Um, we worked with a very large company and they came to us and says we have 14%

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:11

of our workforce accessing their 401k.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:15

So 401k leakage for emergency, uh, type of moments in their life.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:21

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:22

It could be for a broken down car, could be for elder care.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:27

And, and what they came to us and said, Hey, could we use PTO?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:31

And we said, you bet we could build an emergency access.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:34

So instead of accessing your 401k, their employees now come to us and

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:40

they access a certain percentage of their PTO for that emergency instead of

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:45

going to their 401k and accessing it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:48

And it has decreased, um, the, the leakage of their 401k and actually

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:53

it's created more financial wellness.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:55

Throughout their organization, which is very interesting.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:16:59

And so I think that is when I think of an employer really looking to

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:17:03

solve problems for their employees.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:17:06

And trying to support them.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:17:07

That was one area where, uh, you know, we didn't come up with it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:17:11

They can't, they came to us and we said, Hey, we could do this for you.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:17:14

And we built it and delivered it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:17:16

And it's been a great story.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:17:19

Um, and not only are they using it now, we have a number of our clients, uh, that

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:17:24

have turned on emergency cash out, uh, so that they reduce their 401k leakage.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:17:30

I'm sitting here and I'm thinking,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:17:32

you know, if I needed to cash out to pay off a student loan, right.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:17:35

I need to cash out because I need a little bit extra cash and I'm not

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:17:40

going to take it out of my 401k.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:17:43

Are people looking at PTO more or less like Europeans, or have we

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:17:49

gone into like a hyperdrive designed to take less and less time off and

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:17:55

convert it into a cash alternative?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:17:59

Well, first of all, I think America

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:01

is much different than Europeans and I don't think we'll ever be a European.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:06

We're a very productive country and we're very driven country.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:10

Um, and I think people actually like work.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:12

I do.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:12

I think there's people that just like to work like.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:16

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:17

Um, over this last year, I know that namely just came out with a

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:20

new, you know, an updated study of, you know, PTO taking time off.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:24

And it looks like people are taking less time now than they

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:28

were in 2018, uh, from their study.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:32

Um, but I think it, I think it's roughly 15, you know, on it on average

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:37

15 days a year, people take off.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:40

Um, we're certainly not taking two months off like Europeans.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:44

Um, And I think that people are looking at how do we, um, how do we give our

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:51

employees the ability to disengage or to support them with their stress

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:18:57

to re you know, from mental health?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:01

Um, I will, I will tell you that, um, the way we look at it is

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:06

you have PTO to reduce stress.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:10

And that is really into disengage from your work, but stress is

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:13

different for you than it is for me.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:15

And it depends where we are in our transitions in life and our life cycle.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:19

And it goes to, if I'm a gen Z coming out of college and I have 40,000 and $20,000

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:24

in student loan debt, that debt is it reduces my stress more than taking a week.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:32

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:34

I feel like those are things or being able to put it into my 401k so I can increase

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:39

my 401k if I'm the boomer to help.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:43

Um, make sure I have enough money for when I retire that reduces my

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:47

stress more than taking that week off.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:50

Um, and that's what we see.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:53

We just say, we are meeting people in their life cycle, in their transitions

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:19:58

to help support their stress.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:00

And it comes in all, you know, comes in all sizes and shapes.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:05

Um, and that's what we're trying to do.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:07

Uh, and that's what we're seeing people do too.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:10

We are seeing people.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:13

Take, not all of it again, they're still taking, you know, 10, 12 days,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:19

but they're using three days and putting it into their HSA or 401k

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:23

or paying down their student loan.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:25

And, um, you know, there's a lot of people today that don't have $400 in there.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:30

I think it's funny.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:32

They, they don't have $400 in their savings account, but yet

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:35

they have roughly $900 in their PTO account and they can't access.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:41

And so then what they'll do is they will do early way to access to

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:45

porn emergency, and they get stuck in this loophole of, I don't have

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:49

enough cashflow to make ends meet.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:20:52

And we say, why can't you access your PTO to help you bridge through those moments?

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:20:58

Depending on the company and most

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:21:00

companies, at least that I've, I've been part of that have a PTO process.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:21:07

That is a set amount per per year.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:21:12

Typically it isn't like on day one, they go, Hey Ted here's all two weeks or three

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:21:19

weeks worth of vacation on January one.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:21:23

You're accruing, you know, one or two days a month, and it's

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:21:29

kind of, kind of a cruise and kind of builds up to that point.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:21:34

So being able to access that in a similar fashion, I think would be a

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:21:40

really good way to retain some, some employees that may be, would be.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:21:49

More excited to jump over to a company that might give them instead of two weeks,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:21:55

give them three weeks worth of vacation, but it may be a use it or lose it, or

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:21:59

it may be, you know, I just, I just see that being able to, as I accrue it, be

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:22:04

able to leverage being a very popular thing, especially around retention.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:22:09

Have you guys seen that?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:10

We have, in fact, we did a survey.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:12

lighthouse research and it was nine out of 10 employees said that offering

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:16

a benefit like BTU exchange would make them stay with the company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:21

And I think it's because they do associate their time with wages

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:25

and PTO is an accrued, uh, you know, wage at the end of the day.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:31

Um, you know, I always say.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:34

You, when you, when you come into the company, you say, I'm going to, I want,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:37

I want a hundred thousand dollars a year, Ted, and I want four weeks of PTO.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:42

Well, what you did there is you just said, Hey, I'm going to give you

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:45

11 months worth of productivity.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:47

And you're going to pay me a hundred thousand dollars.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:49

And if I work 11 months in one week, my, my, my, what we call productivity pay

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:22:57

rate, it goes down because I just gave you more productivity than when I negotiate.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:23:04

And that's really what we see.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:23:06

We see that it's, it should always be part of your salary negotiating,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:23:10

but that's what you're doing when you negotiate your PTO.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:23:14

Um, and you know, we see we've seen unlimited come into play.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:23:19

And what, what unlimited is really doing is it's taking that away.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:23:22

It's taking that negotiating piece away and saying, no,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:23:27

you can't negotiate your PTO.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:23:28

It's unlimited.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:23:29

Well, nobody has unlimited time, Ted.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:23:32

Um, okay.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:23:33

It's interesting, you bring that up

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:23:35

because that was like, one of the big things is we're talking about this.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:23:37

I started to come into mind because I've worked for a number of companies

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:23:41

who have said they have PTO policies.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:23:44

Now that started in Silicon valley and is spread to what seems to be everywhere.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:23:48

And it's definitely impacting the marketplace.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:23:51

Some people say for the good some say for the bad kind of give us like the,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:23:55

uh, devil's advocate, you know, little, little white angel on one side and little

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:24:00

red devil on the other kind of help us understand like the good and bad of it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:24:04

You started to talk about some of the bad, but

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:24:07

Yeah.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:24:07

like what good stuff could come out of it

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:09

Well, okay, well, the good stuff is,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:11

you know, you can do a job and take as much time off, but you really can't.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:16

What I feel is the fact that unlimited PTO, everyone knows it's unlimited.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:22

It starts out with a lie.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:23

It's like a Mirage.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:25

There's water over there, but it doesn't really exist.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:28

Come on in.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:29

You can go drink from the Mirage over there, but when you get there, it's dry.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:33

And, and what I say is a company that tracks the employees time and your

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:40

time is your most intimate thing, Ted.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:42

It's the most intimate thing we have.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:45

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:45

It's how we get paid.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:47

The fact that they are, they are not, they're not willing to track.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:51

It means that they really don't care about.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:55

'cause they don't care about your time.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:57

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:24:58

The minutes, here's the deal.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:01

You're an expense to the company.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:04

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:04

You are an expense.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:06

You're the largest expense they have.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:09

You're also their largest asset.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:11

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:13

Companies make money from revenue minus expenses equals profit.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:17

If I don't have to expense your time or a crew your time,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:22

then I've just increased my.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:24

On the backs of not tracking your time.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:29

And once, once people get educated with, you know, on how financially this

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:36

works, I think they'll be surprised.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:39

I think today's gen Z and millennials.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:43

Uh, I don't think that they really understand how this operates.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:48

And so they're going home unlimited PTO.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:50

Yeah.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:50

But they don't get is doesn't exist.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:25:54

Um, so I think starting out a relationship saying you have unlimited PTO is like,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:00

I'm lying to you and you don't start a good relationship lying to someone.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:04

Um, I'd rather know that, Hey, I have 15 days a year and that's what I get.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:10

And next year I'm going to get.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:12

And then when I leave, if I didn't use those, uh, you know, I get them paid out.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:17

I get, I get them around.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:19

Um, because that's the, the agreement, um, with unlimited you don't eat.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:24

Don't get that.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:26

I will tell you that unlimited PTO started in California and everyone knows this.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:31

And it started from the unintended consequences of a good law.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:38

And that is a law that was written down in, I think it came out in 1976,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:43

which is if you accrue your weight, if you accrue your PTO or you vest

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:48

your PTO, it's considered earned wages and needs to be paid out.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:53

And what companies like Netflix did is said, well, shit, if I don't, if I

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:26:57

don't accrue it, then it's not earned.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:01

And that's how they get around it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:27:03

Thus, I don't have to pay it out.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:04

Thus, I don't have to pay it out.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:06

I don't have to track it and I can name it as unlimited, knowing that Ted, you

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:10

have so much work as an engineer to do.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:12

You're never going to be taking time off.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:27:17

So true.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:27:18

So true.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:27:19

I mean, if you look at it and that actually brings me to another

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:27:22

question is like, are you, and all the research you're doing, are you seeing.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:27:29

Those folks who are looking at on P unlimited PTO taking off more time or less

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:27:36

time than the folks that have it accrude.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:38

Well, we're just, so we're

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:39

just doing a study right now.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:40

So we'll, I think we'll come out with, we'll get all the answers back in

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:44

about four months, but we're doing a study around this, but namely did one

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:48

in 2018 and they realized that people that had unlimited, um, use less time.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:55

And at that time it was 13 days versus 15.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:58

If they accrued.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:27:59

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:01

And like I said, they just updated a study and it says now unlimited people take

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:06

12 days and accrued people take 11 days.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:12

But here's the thing about that study.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:15

I don't track unlimited, then how do I know what people took?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:22

I don't, I have no clue.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:24

So however they got that information.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:28

Accrued PTO, you track it because you accrue the dollars.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:32

And so I know, but with unlimited it's, it's not tracked.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:38

I can take as much as I want.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:39

I can take as little as I want just leave.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:42

So, so I'm not quite sure how the data is the same with unlimited PTO that

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:47

you don't track and you don't know versus, you know, accrued PTO, which

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:53

is your crew and get on your balance sheet and you're accruing it within the.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:28:58

And you're expensing it through your profit and loss statement, but

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:29:02

they just came out with the update saying that unlimited uses 12 and

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:29:06

accrued PTO people use 11 days.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:29:09

What they don't say is that those people that have accrued PTO, they get

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:29:14

the rest of their days, paid out when they leave and the unlimited Don't..

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:29:19

So at the end of the day, the accrued PTO people make more

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:29:24

money than the unlimited people.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:29:29

Oh my gosh.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:29:30

You know, I, and that's a unique perspective because most folks, like you

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:29:33

mentioned, don't think about it that way.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:29:36

It's just, they think about is that this is like, I've a restriction.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:29:40

This is like my mindset before doing the research to have

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:29:43

this conversation with you.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:29:45

Um, even my mindset was, well, I'm not really.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:29:50

If I can, I'm told that I only, I only get three weeks and I used two,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:29:57

and I get paid out on One., that's not as good as being told that I have

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:04

unlimited time, because I may be able to figure out a way and mind you.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:13

I might be able to figure out a way to get four weeks a year

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:18

by going the unlimited route,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:30:21

Yeah.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:30:22

Yeah, you might, you might, but I doubt it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:26

The keyword there's might.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:28

And I get that.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:29

I get that.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:29

It's, that's the key word, but th th that's the perspective that I think

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:33

a lot of people take on that and they don't look at all the other different

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:37

things because how many times.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:39

And there might be like a lever leverage difference within the organization

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:44

as well, where somebody who's an entry-level person with unlimited versus

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:48

an executive that has unlimited there.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:50

There's a disparity there between who's able to leverage that

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:54

unlimited versus an accrue.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:56

And I think there's, there's a bit of a disparity that, that

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:30:59

really starts to come into that.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:31:00

And I've seen it on, on both sides of, of the, of the coin where it benefits

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:31:08

one person better than the other.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:09

Agreed.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:10

And that comment that you just made it better is one person more than the.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:18

That is going every it's going against everything about equality and inclusion.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:24

And so what you're saying is, Hey Ted, we have the same job.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:28

You're a little bit better.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:29

So you're able to get that job done.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:30

So you're able to get four weeks and yeah, I'm doing the same job.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:34

I can pay it the same, but you know, maybe I'm a little slower or maybe I'm

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:38

junior or, you know, I'm still new.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:41

It takes me a little bit longer and maybe I'm just a little bit more

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:45

efficient or maybe I'm, you know, a little bit more detail oriented.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:49

So it takes me longer.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:51

I get three weeks.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:53

Well, that's not fair that doesn't work.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:31:56

That's not, that's not equality, that's not inclusion you're

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:00

just the haves and the have nots.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:02

There is no equality there.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:04

If you really want to drive inclusion and equality, you, you set up and

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:10

communicate exactly what people get.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:13

You get 15 days, your first year, Ted, next year, you're going to get 20,

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:17

like John over there, or like Lisa.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:20

Um, it's very clear.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:22

It's very concise.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:22

And guess what?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:23

You know, you have 15 days and you can go take them.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:27

You know that when you go to your manager, you're owed 15 days.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:31

It's not like the unlimited where you go, Hey, can I take a week off?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:34

And your manager goes, well, you know, it's a, you got to get this work done.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:39

Um, it's, it just, it takes away the miscommunication

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:32:46

because you're communicating it upfront and you're earning it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:32:51

I can see that , you and I have touched

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:32:54

base on a couple of things and I interviewed, a gentleman by the name

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:32:59

of Chris Skinner and he's the author, um, for, uh, He's an author and just

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:06

released a book called digital for good.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:09

And a lot of that is around a lot of the ESG and purpose driven businesses

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:14

focus, mostly on banking and FinTech.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:17

I mean, this is FinTech confidential and the business round table

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:21

updated a statement of purpose for a corporation, 181 CEO's signed it.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:28

And I would love for you to talk about.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:31

The type of company called.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:33

And I said, I do that

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:34

as setup because the company culture that it talks about is the inclusive,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:39

it's all the, all the things that, that I believe that that PTO

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:44

exchange based upon our conversations is really head headed towards.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:48

And I like you to talk about the type of company culture that PTO exchange

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:33:53

does best with and how it strengthens the communities around those companies.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:33:59

So the companies that we do

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:00

best with are the ones that really care for their employees.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:03

And we say that the company that, that accrues and expenses

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:08

you it's, it's a good thing.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:12

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:13

It shows that they care about you.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:15

They care about your time and they care about making sure that you're tracked.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:20

Now on the other hand, somebody could say, well, I don't want to be tracked

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:22

because, you know, I, I think, you know, being tracked as a bad thing, well, okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:30

I get that.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:31

Nobody wants to be micromanaged in their job.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:34

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:35

But tracking the expense the company level is important.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:39

It's important.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:40

To know that you are, uh, an item on there on our list.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:45

Um, I look at the ESG 181 round table, Jamie diamond type of

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:50

stuff as, um, I liked that they recognize it first and foremost.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:34:58

I think a company is only as good as their balance sheet.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:03

and how they track things.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:04

Cuz guess what, they only have one thing that they do and that is make money.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:09

They are there to make money and to return for their shareholders.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:13

They only have one fiduciary responsibility and that

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:16

is to the shareholders.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:18

They do not have a fiduciary responsibility to their employees.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:22

No such thing.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:23

Now, if there was such a thing that would be great, but it doesn't exist.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:28

And it's not in any bylaws of any company that I'm aware of.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:32

And so in accordance with that, they're going to act in that manner.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:36

Okay.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:37

Um, and by doing that, it is their fiduciary responsibility to lower

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:42

expenses and you are an expense.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:46

So it is that, is there a fiduciary responsibility to

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:49

lower their employee expense so they can profit more off of you.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:52

Um, and that kind of runs counterintuitive to the ESG round

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:35:57

table and, and all their nice thoughts.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:36:00

Um, anyhow, um, I think that PTO should be owned and earned and, you know, you should

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:36:07

have control over it, just like you do.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:36:10

Um, other things.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:36:12

We've covered so much today.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:36:15

If you had only one sentence to share with the audience to change

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:36:20

their business and our personal perspective on PTO, what would that be?

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:36:28

It's your time and you have

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:36:30

earned it, you should own it.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:36:33

And I think that unlimited time doesn't exist.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:36:38

It's the only thing we have that is finite in a number of days.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:36:44

And, uh, that's what I would leave just own your time.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:36:49

That is awesome.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:36:49

I remember reading a book, um, and I wish I could remember the name of the author.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:36:54

Um, but I will give him credit in, in the, in the description, everything,

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:36:58

but it just reminded me that he says fourteen forty fourteen, forty fourteen

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:03

hundred and forty minutes in a day.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:07

That's all.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:08

That's all that will be there.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:09

There'll be no more, no less.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:11

There's 1,440 minutes every single day.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:14

And to use them the best way you possibly can.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:37:16

That is so true.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:37:18

And, and, and you only have so many years and that's, you know, make

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:37:22

sure it's, uh, you're getting paid for, it makes your having attract

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:37:27

as a good thing and share it wisely.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:33

Thank you so much for sharing all the

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:35

great things, the PTO exchange story, your story, how to look at things.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:41

This has definitely given me a different perspective on, on how to view PTO.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:46

And I think it's going to be for a lot of the folks watching and listening to this.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:50

I think.

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:51

Them also take a different perspective and be able to leverage

Tedd Huff - Host, Fintech Confidential:

: 00:37:55

their PTO in a much better way.

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:37:57

Tedd, thanks for having me really

Rob Whalen - Co-Founder & CEO, PTO Exchange:

: 00:37:58

appreciate you taking the time, uh, you know, and meet with me.