The Ultimate Solution to Digital Fraud? Alex Zeltcer, CEO of nSure.ai explains

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:00:00

Don't treat fraud as

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:00:01

cost of doing business.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:00:02

It doesn't have to be.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:00:03

make sure that what you're doing is,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:00:06

adapted to your domain

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:00:07

Don't try to build rules you have to use, it's a machine learning game.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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There's no point in trying to do anything else.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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No point.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:01:17

Alex, welcome to the show.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:01:20

Thanks a lot Tedd.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:01:21

Very happy to be here.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:01:22

NSure.ai, which is an Israeli

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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fraud prevention platform that helps sellers of digital goods

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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protect themselves against fraud.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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Now it uses machine learning models to analyze real-time data, to provide revenue

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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assurance and chargeback guarantees.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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It seems to be reducing declines by about 70% compared to the industry

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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average allowing retailers to recover almost 100 billion dollars

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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of potentially lost revenue from the declines from legitimate customers

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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in some of the higher risk domains.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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Alex, you are the CEO, and Co-Founder of nSure.ai and you've held a bunch

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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of executive positions at multiple, and

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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founded, uh, multiple companies as well.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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Um, you've been a partner at AfterDox and then the COO in GM at Zeek, which

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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was a European gift card marketplace.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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And then before that, you spent some time as the CEO of artizone, which

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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was really cool, I really liked that farmer's market thing that

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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you had done there.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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then you were the GM of Smart Team, then you also spent a

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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bunch of time at Dassault.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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oh, I mean, it just keeps going.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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you've done everything from sales, marketing, product development,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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customer success, finance, and the one that surprised me really was

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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You ta touched into the HR world.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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So I, I've gotta understand how did all of these different places, pieces and

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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parts and all these roles that you played,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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how did you end up falling into FinTech?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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Wow.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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That's a, that's a good question.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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I haven't thought about that one.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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the answer is honestly, the answer is very simple, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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I've been GM for, uh, for a company called Zeek.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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Zeek was a gift card marketplace,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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we've, uh, we were doing about,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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a hundred million a year in sales of digital gift cards and we've, uh,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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which is already authentic business.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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it's important to understand that because selling digital gift cards

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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online is very similar to selling cash.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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Very similar, especially if you are dealing with, uh, gift cards from

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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Amazon, from Walmart, from Tesco, from these type of organizations.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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what really brought me in there is that, uh, uh, the first week we

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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launched our product in the UK, we encountered massive amounts of fraud.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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We didn't expect that, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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We, we started the company

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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and launched it in Israel.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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The Israeli market is very small from a consumer perspective, so we stopped it.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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We launched it in the UK the first week.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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It was very nice, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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We thought we're, we were, we ran out of inventory, we were very happy.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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And then the week later we found out that 40%, 4 0% of the, of the sales we've,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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we've, uh, accomplished were fraudulent.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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And we started getting their chargebacks and eventually on something that we,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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you know, we make 3%, 4% as a margin, we found ourselves hit with 40% of fraud.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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It's devastating for a company.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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It was a good thing by the way, that we ran out of inventory.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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We bought the inventory and sold it.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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Rather than being connected on an API, we were connected on an API

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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it would've been a disaster, could have killed the company

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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How did you end up at Zeek?

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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How did you go from like Dassault to a farmer's market over to

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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the, the gift card market?

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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I'm, I'm kind of baffled,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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how did that transition happen?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:04:41

Artizone was an online farmer's

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:04:43

market, has nothing to do with FinTech,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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and almost has no fraud

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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, so nothing happened there.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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Um, but the reality of it is very simple.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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The, the company before that I was, uh, not before, even before Dassault, I was,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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uh, I was at a small startup CellGlide.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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I was brought on board to run engineering, and I had an employee, there was a

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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developer at the time, a guy named Ziv.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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And, uh, Ziv continued on his own path.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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I continued on my own.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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We kept on in touch.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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I, um, I lived in, uh, in the US for a few years with Artizone.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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We sold the company there and I came back to as Israel with the family, and

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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um, and, uh, he asked me to come, you know, get some coffee together with him.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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I landed, I remember that I landed on August 15th and I

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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intended to take a year off.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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Right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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Because it, it was, you know, it's, it's, it's a lot, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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We, we had the Artizone for seven years.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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You know, a journey of seven years with a startup is, uh, is like, uh,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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it's like it's seven dog, dog years, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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It's like 50 years.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:05:40

Exactly.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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So it's, it's, it's difficult.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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And I said, I'll take a year off.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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And so he met me for coffee.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:05:47

I told him, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do anything.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:05:49

I'm gonna go to the beach.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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He said, no, no, no.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:05:51

Look, we, we've just raised funds, we're, we, we need to scale.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:05:55

We have no idea how to do that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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We have no idea.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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And, um, and, and they raised, at the time they raised 10 million dollars.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:06:02

And uh, and he asked me to come on board and I actually said,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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okay, I'm willing to come on board for three months as a project.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:06:08

I'll help you.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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You know, I'll take the reins, I'll do what needs to happen.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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And it was funny, we, um, uh, when I joined, so I I,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:06:16

on September 1st, I was there like full-time.

zeltcer: 00:06:19

That's.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:06:20

my goodness.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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and, uh, and we took the company

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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from, we were doing in September, in, in, in August, we were doing about

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:06:28

$350, $400,000 in, in sales, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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In turnaround for the company.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:06:34

In December we were doing

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:06:36

3 million, and in December after that, we were doing 11 million.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:06:42

Wow.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:06:42

That's some nice growth.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:06:45

Very nice growth.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:06:46

So, you know, after the first four months, the, the, you know, the founders

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

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and the board asked that I stay on the company and, and run the business.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:06:54

And, um, you know, and I said, okay, I didn't eat intend too, said okay.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:06:58

It was a very fun ride.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:06:59

So, you know, go going from 300, 400k in, in turn, turnaround the month to 11

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:07:04

million within, you know, less than 18 months is, is a very interesting journey.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:07:09

A very interesting journey.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:07:10

And, and that's where we encountered fraud, as I mentioned.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:07:13

And that's what brought me to

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:07:14

did you negotiate in there that

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:07:16

you could, your office was gonna

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:07:18

be from one of the picnic tables down there on the beach?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:07:21

of course, of course.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:07:23

Yeah.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:07:24

Oh,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:07:25

You know, I'm nine to five, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:07:27

I'm nine to five.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:07:28

I'm a nine to five guy.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:07:30

Oh, so through that journey

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:07:33

of coming into, into FinTech, having that massive growth, finding out

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:07:39

about the fraud, then turning around and, and developing and building

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:07:44

out nSure.ai from then to now,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

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What is the one thing you've learned that sticks in your mind the most about

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:07:54

the FinTech journey you've been on?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:07:56

I'm a very detailed oriented,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:07:58

uh, person in general, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:00

I, Uh, I, I can see the big picture, but I need the details.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:05

I don't feel comfortable, uh, when I can't dive in, understand something and then

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:10

come back out to see the bigger picture.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:12

And FinTech is very, very, very detail oriented, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:15

At the end of the day, it's understanding,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:18

the details of how, you know, how funds flow,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:08:23

Mm-hmm.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:23

what happens from one stage to the other?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:26

It's very complicated, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:27

It's very risky.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:28

It's very complicated.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:29

It's very costly to make mistakes, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:31

Because you're touching funds.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:32

It's not like,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:33

you made a mistake and you know, there's a button now that

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:35

doesn't work on some website.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:36

It, it's not that button now is the one that, uh, used, is used

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:40

to pay for something, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:41

And if that doesn't work.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:43

. It's a nightmare.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:44

what I found that's very interesting in FinTech is you

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:48

have to understand the details.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:50

You have to understand the business implications of everything you do, and

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:53

you cannot do that well enough.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:08:56

You have to figure out exactly what makes the business tick,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:00

what can create that margin you need that can scale through time.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:04

And, and that's what I'm finding here at nSure as well.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:07

It's very, very interesting to figure out where the value really lies.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:11

What are the clients willing to pay for?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:13

What they, what do they get?

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:09:14

you mentioned FinTech and the

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:09:16

details and needing to be able to understand all the details, what

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:09:23

role, um, do outside perspectives,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:09:27

are you leveraging in order to get into those details of things

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:09:31

that maybe you or, or even your customers don't even know about?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:34

All, it's important to be, to be humble

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:36

on that, on that aspect, don't, don't, don't assume you know everything because

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:40

you don't, even if you are, if you dug in and you feel like you understand

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:43

everything, you can, believe me, there's someone that understands more.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:47

So there's more to uncover.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:48

And we've been using the, uh, we've been using,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:51

external services, external advisors throughout the journey for nSure,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:54

we hired, you know, a a couple of people that,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:09:57

industry expertise that really understand the domain that have done

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:00

that at, uh, you know, at different

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:02

really large companies, I, I won't name names.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:05

And then, and then

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:06

you get the insights from people that have seen the bigger picture,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:09

understand the details, understand what you're trying to achieve, and

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:13

can, and can bridge the gap for you.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:15

So we've done that throughout, throughout the history of nSure.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:18

easy.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:10:19

It sounds easy.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:20

sounds easy, yes.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:22

If you don't have someone that really understands that

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:24

and that's gone through that,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:25

has the industry expertise is essential in FinTech.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:29

I, I, I couldn't agree more.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:10:32

know, You'd mentioned your time at

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:10:33

Zeek really is what opened your eyes to the fraud that was really out there.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:10:41

What was that moment when you realized that building out a fraud platform could

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:10:51

be its own business, and then the decision to say, yes, we're gonna start nSure?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:10:59

No, that, that's an easy one.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:01

Actually, no, honestly, it's an easy one because at, at first we started the

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:07

investment because we had no other choice.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:09

What we found out is that if we're using heuristics and the tools available at

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:13

the time, we find ourselves declining, I, I wanna say at least 20% of the, of

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:19

the transactions for fraud screening.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:21

Then you have the network that helps you a little bit further

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:24

and you and declines 15%.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:26

So you end up declining, you know, in on, in total more than 30% of your population.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:32

Then you count how many you declined that are new shoppers and

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:36

you get a staggering number that is somewhere between 45 and 50%.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:40

And when we did the math on our customer acquisition cost versus lifetime value,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:44

we said if we have a 50% decline, and again, the 50% is of people

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:49

that have already provided you the payment instrument, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:52

They said, I wanna purchase, here's my credit card information.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:55

They've done the whole thing.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:56

They've gone through the entire funnel, and 50% of these

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:11:59

people you're saying no to,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:01

And you do the calculation, the customer acquisition cost

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:04

to lifetime value calculation.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:05

You see that you're never gonna be profitable.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:07

So we said, okay, we cannot afford this, you know, this

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:11

situation, we cannot afford it.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:13

We have to find a way to approve more clients.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:16

And once we realized that, we started building our own tools, because we

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:20

said, yes, it's possible to do that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:21

we realized that within these 20% of the people that we decline on the fraud

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:25

reasons, maybe maybe 2% are fraud.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:29

Everybody else is legitimate.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:31

Sometime towards the middle of 17 we started seeing that what we're

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:37

able to do is in order of magnitude better , meaning we were declining

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:42

roughly 2% and the rest of the world was declining somewhere between 15 and 20.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:48

And when we saw that we can, we, we were really declining 2% while the

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:52

best tools out there at, at the time we used Forter Riskified that we're

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:56

very, very strong in e-commerce.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:12:57

There still are, they're, they're doing an amazing job for e-commerce, but they

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:01

were declining 15 to 20% on our side.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:04

And at that point, when we saw that and we saw that Forter, and Riskified

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:07

at the time were raising, I wanna say 50, 60 million dollars already, both of

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:12

them, we said, okay, we have something

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:13:15

How do you describe nSure AI's

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:13:18

overarching mission for the marketplace?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:22

Yeah, so, so generally speaking,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:24

it's very simple, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:25

So, uh, in e-commerce today,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:26

we wanna allow them to sell their goods.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:29

Just like any other merchants on the e-commerce side.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:31

We want 'em to be able to approve 98, 99% of their transactions.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:35

Simple.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:36

That's it.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:36

That's our mission.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:37

And therefore what we're, you know, what we set out to do

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:41

has nothing to do with fraud.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:42

Really.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:43

It has only to do with improving their business it with getting them more of

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:49

the legitimate shoppers that are actually there to buy their product, and they're

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:53

declining them for no good reason.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:13:55

That's it.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:13:56

Oh, love it.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:13:58

Love it.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:13:59

I mean, that's, that's one of the big things is that I've had a, a previous

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:02

guest on, um, that is working on, when you're in a subscription model and you

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:09

go to rebill and you get a decline.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:12

How do you recover those declines?

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:15

Because there are so many different codes that go with those declines.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:18

And so he's built using a similar, and I, I'm overgeneralizing here, but has

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:24

leveraged machine learning and data analytics to determine when to try,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:30

how to try, if the issuer is going to do it based upon all these different

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:34

things, in order to increase the approval count, approval ratio on

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:40

those subscription-based services.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:42

when we start looking at subscription-based services, those are

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:45

some of the first things, when the economy starts to slow down, that people cancel.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:49

I doubt you have a crystal ball or, or a hot tub time

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:53

machine, which is my favorite.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:14:55

Um, Tell me, what do you see as the opportunities ahead

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:15:00

for digital goods retailers

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:15:02

as we continue to see a little bit more pressure on, on the economy?

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:15:08

What are some of the opportunities for them to get those additional

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:15:12

approvals for those real customers?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:13

It's easier to keep a customer

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:15

than to regain a new one, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:17

It's.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:17

It's very, it's very, it's very simple, so looking at your funnel

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:21

and being able to optimize that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:24

I think is, is the key.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:25

And, and we're right there to, you know, to help do that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:28

It's true for physical goods.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:30

It's true for digital goods.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:31

It's true for everyone.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:32

On the digital side, I know it's probably not very popular to say, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:36

I truly believe that crypto and, and, and web three, um, not necessarily the

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:42

way it has been going so far, but this virtual world is gonna create an amazing,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:47

amazing opportunity for companies

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:50

but I think that the opportunity for digital assets and digital goods in

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:55

this domain are gonna be enormous.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:15:58

Uh, there's lots of fluff and lots

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:00

of hot air.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:00

Hot air, let's call it that, right?

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:16:02

Well, not only that, but you also

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:16:04

have a, a ton of fun or fear, uncertainty and doubt going on.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:16:08

So you, you've got the hot air and you've got the uncertainty and

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:16:12

doubt going, and it's just like, it's right now, it's colliding,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:16:15

um, all of these different things.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:17

Yes, I agree.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:17

I agree.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:18

But on the other hand, you're starting to see some really robust

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:22

business models coming out of it, and you're starting to see,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:25

you're starting to see that there's something in there.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:28

So I believe me personally, I believe that, and the payment

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:32

industry as well, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:33

There's no really good payment infrastructure in that domain today.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:37

And unless that infrastructure is allowing people to come in using.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:42

Right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:42

Using, you know, standard money, not only crypto, uh, it, it won't go

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:46

mass, it won't go mass market, uh, or at least it'll take, you know,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:50

a decade or more to go mass market.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:52

We, I think everybody understands that too.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:16:54

So you have to figure out how to, how to, uh, uh, overlay a payment infrastructure

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:00

into that, into that domain.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:02

We're helping a few companies do that today.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:04

We're helping companies that are creating the payment processors of

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:08

the future for that to happen because the, the, the, the fraud in this

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:13

industry is, is enormous, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:15

It's, very attractive, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:17

Buying crypto with a credit card, with a stolen credit card is

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:19

extremely attractive for fraudsters.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:21

Buying an N F T with a stolen credit card is very attractive because

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:24

unlike anything else, once you get the crypto, it's yours there.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:28

No one can, there's, there are no reversals.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:31

And, um, and, and it's very, very, very lucrative for the,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:34

for the fraudsters to do that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:35

So, so we've seen a lot of, uh, a lot of companies that, that are in that

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:40

domain, struggle, you know, and because they don't understand fear at all,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:43

they understand the crypto side, they don't really understand the Fiat side.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:46

And, and, and we found a few that we can really help on.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:17:49

And, and there are others.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:17:52

So before we dive into the details, cause

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:17:54

I've got a bunch of questions around how you guys are helping with that.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:17:57

What do you see the, the future of FinTech building better fraud services using the

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:18:03

data, but not losing consumer privacy?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:09

in, In e-commerce, uh, um, um, the king in

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:13

fraud prevention is identity verification.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:18:16

Mm-hmm.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:17

And the common sense is very simple.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:18

If you identify the person behind the payment instrument behind the

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:22

transaction to be the rightful owner of the payment instrument, you're safe.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:27

It's the rightful owner conducting the transaction.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:29

Everything's good.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:30

What happens in the digital world today is that there are

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:33

multiple identities and they don't correlate to the e-commerce world.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:37

So if, you know, if you're playing, uh, on Steam and you're buying, you

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:41

know, NFTs on, uh, uh, uh, on open sea and, and, and crypto, and Binance

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:47

and you're buying on Amazon, you're probably using three

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:50

different email accounts for that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:52

Most people do, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:54

You have a completely different avatar on there, on Steam, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:18:57

So if you are an e-commerce platform and you're using the fact that identity

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:02

verification is extremely important, you're seeing a person on Steam or

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:07

on Binance using an email address that you have never seen before.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:12

And he declines that transaction for no good reason.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:15

Absolutely.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:17

And, and the reason, the reason is he believes that identify verification

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:21

and, you know, everything he knows about the environment is true for everything.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:24

It's simply not.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:26

And in, and, and, and that ties back into that privacy issue that

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:29

you've just mentioned, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:31

So what do we need to do?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:33

We identify behavior anomalies and can identify fraudulent behavior, not

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:38

necessarily a fraudulent email address or an IP address, or a mismatch between them.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:44

. When you think about the, this

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:49

and, and security are key, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:51

It's privacy and anonymity.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:52

we ask our merchants to stop all the friction.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:55

Stop by, stop email verification.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:57

Stop fund verification.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:19:59

Don't go through KYC unless the regulation requires it, because KYC, by the way, is

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:20:03

a great tool for anti money laundering.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:20:06

Has nothing to do with fraud prevention, nothing.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:20:09

So don't do that unless

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:20:10

And we'll, we'll dive into

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:20:12

that in a little bit about, about the, the KYC piece of it.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:20:15

the big piece that I got out of that was that identifying the individual using

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:20:25

that, that detailed data is, is not as beneficial as what we once thought.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:20:31

And realistically, in order to provide using data, in order to

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:20:37

provide the privacy that people are looking for, we have to look at the

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:20:41

behavior and then anomalies within the behavior and less about the detail

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:20:45

within the data of the individual.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:20:48

Is that, is that what I'm hearing?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:20:50

Yeah.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:20:51

You, you, you should, we should switch places.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:20:53

Yes.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:20:53

You did a much better than that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:20:55

Yes.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:20:56

Yep.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:20:58

you know, I have the benefit of,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:21:00

of listening and then synthesizing and then sending it back to you.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:21:04

You just talked about something that's very important.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:21:06

removing friction from the experience.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:21:09

And when we look at the FinTech ecosystem and, and heck, just the digital ecosystem

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:21:14

in general, it's severely disjointed.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:21:17

It's disconnected from really how people use the systems that they're on.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:21:25

What other opportunities for FinTechs like nSure.ai, are there to

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:21:33

drive better customer experiences?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:21:36

So I think anything that helps in, um,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:21:40

conducting things behind the scenes without interacting with the consumer,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:21:44

looking at what they're doing and gathering data from, you know, from

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:21:49

whatever the internet has to offer, which is a lot today, obviously.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:21:54

doing that without interacting with the consumer is key.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:21:56

Whether it's for fraud prevention, whether it's for deciding what

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:22:00

kind of, uh, you know, ad to display whether, whatever it is.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:22:04

Whatever it is, doing that as seamlessly as possible, that that's what's gonna

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:22:09

be the key, I believe, and, and, and we pride ourselves in, in adding zero

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:22:15

friction, which, which is extremely important in my, in my opinion.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:23:14

How is nSure.ai positioned to lead

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:23:18

the market in fraud prevention?

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:23:21

And how do you see working with your partners and customers to deliver

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:23:27

these frictionless experiences?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:23:31

first understanding that you

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:23:32

need to look at behavior, and gathering vast amounts of that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:23:36

We, we look at everything, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:23:37

We look with the merchants we work with.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:23:39

We look at every mouse gesture, we look at every keystroke.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:23:43

We look not only around the transaction, but from the beginning of history, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:23:47

The first time you come into the website, we'll, we'll look

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:23:50

at everything you're doing.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:23:52

Uh, it sounds a bit scary, but, don't worry.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:23:54

we're completely GDPR compliance, c CPA compliant, whatever.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:23:58

We're not sharing that with anyone.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:23:59

Not sharing that with, we're not using it, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:01

We're not using it for anything else except for approving

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:05

or declining transactions.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:06

Very simple.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:08

Identifying fraudsters.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:09

So, so you have to, you have to look at all of that, uh, uh, uh,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:15

all of that vast, uh, data lake and, and, and, and use machine learning

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:21

because there's nothing else, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:22

There's nothing else that is capable of looking at that data they can make you

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:26

and, and, and ascertaining the patterns and identifying the patterns that emerge.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:30

It's impossible to do that with rules or with, you know, whatever.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:34

We used to do that, you know, 10 years ago.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:35

It's simply not possible.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:37

There's much of it.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:24:38

Rules based stuff.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:24:39

Just it, it had its day in the limelight, but now there's just so

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:24:44

much data and the ability to create models based on rules and overrides

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:24:50

and all these different things

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:52

it doesn't work.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:24:52

Is.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:24:53

Nearly humanly impossible with the level of data.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:24:58

yeah,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:24:58

it is possible, but it just,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:25:00

it's, it's a lot easier to use these machine learning models.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:04

it's not only that, the issue is

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:05

that the fraudsters are, you know, they're, they're ahead of that, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:09

So they're using machines as well.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:11

If you're using rules, they'll circumvent that in a minute.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:15

I, I can tell you that for one of the things that we used to do at the, at

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:19

the, you know, at the start of the company is we iden, let's say we identify

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:22

a fraud pattern that the models are still not very adapt to dealing with.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:26

We used to create a rule, that says, okay, so let's find a, a rule that would,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:31

deflect that traffic for a while until we train the model, we add the feature,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:35

we do whatever it needs to happen.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:37

And what we figured out is that if you put in a rule a, a strict rule,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:42

a very simple rule, it takes seconds, uh, seconds is a, is an

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:47

exoneration, takes minutes, and the fraudsters go a different way.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:51

And once they do that, you lose the pattern, you lose the attack, and

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:55

then, and they keep on ha, hacking you until you figure out the new pattern.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:25:59

So don't put in rooms.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:26:00

find a way to adapt your model to that attack other, otherwise,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:26:06

you're gonna find yourself just missing that attack completely.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:26:09

it's not only that rule based are becoming too complicated because there's too much

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:26:13

data, too many rules, the people cannot re, you know, you add a rule, you remove

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:26:17

a rule, there's, there's a conflict you don't even know about that, et cetera.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:26:20

It's not only that, it's the fact that when you do that, the fraudsters

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:26:23

are advanced in a way that,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:26:26

you know, they'll circumvent that amendments from, from our perspective,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:26:29

you know, from, from our experience.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:26:31

So it, it just, it, it just fails miserably, miserably.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:26:34

You mentioned, you know, them making

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:26:36

these adjustments and one of the things that we, we haven't talked about is,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:26:42

digital fraud.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:26:46

One of the things we haven't talked about is the digital fraud and

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:26:49

all of the collateral damage that most people don't think about.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:26:54

How does digital fraud impact a business's bottom line beyond

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:26:59

just declining the transactions?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:02

So, so if you look at the total cost

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:04

of fraud, it's, first of all, it's the,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:07

the false negatives, what we call false negative, meaning you have

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:09

missed the fraudsters, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:11

So you allow a fraudsters to come in, and then you find

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:14

yourself out of pocket, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:15

So there's a chargeback, it arrives, you pay for it, you lost the

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:18

merchandise, you lost the money.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:20

That's very easy to understand, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:22

You, you sold,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:24

A game for 50 bucks on Xbox.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:26

Then a chargeback arrives.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:28

You lost the 50 bucks.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:28

That's it, and you're out of pocket.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:30

Number two really is all of that, you know the declines, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:34

Is the, is the legitimate customers that you decline for no reason.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:38

That's normally as, as we've mentioned,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:39

it could be up to 20, 25%.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:42

And if you look at, um, if you look at what happens throughout the network,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:46

including what the networks decline, Visa, MasterCard, and all of these.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:50

So if you think, think if you could plug in a system that would increase

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:54

your top line by 8% overnight, it, you know, it's, it's staggering

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:58

what it could do for a business.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:27:59

So that's the second piece.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:28:00

The third piece is what you pay for the, for the tools and people that you put in

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:28:06

place in order to fight the fraud, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:28:07

Eventually, it's the consumers that pay for it.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:10

I think there's a fourth item actually.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:12

the fourth item for me is the consumer confidence in the company

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:18

that is delivering the goods.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:19

So if I'm getting declined and I'm like, I know my card's

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:23

good, I know I'm a real person.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:25

and I just tried to buy this digital good or I tried to buy something

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:28

else, I may just go, you know what?

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:31

It's not worth it.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:32

I'll just go X, Y, Z company,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:35

and now they've just lost that customer for good.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:28:38

Exactly.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:28:39

You lose them completely.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:28:40

You lose the lifetime value of all the new shoppers you decline.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:28:43

It's simple.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:28:44

from our data, 67%, like two thirds of the people you decline on the

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:28:49

first transaction never come back.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:28:51

67%.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:53

Oh wow.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:28:54

Yeah.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:28:54

That's what we see

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:55

How much revenue do businesses lose

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:28:58

on average each month by declining?

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:29:02

And then we're just talking about declining.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:29:04

We're not even talking about the lost customers.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:29:05

customers but

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:06

Yeah.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:29:06

declining legitimate transactions.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:29:09

What is, is the average that we start to see around this?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:12

It varies.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:13

It varies significantly by industry, by vertical.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:17

Uh, crypto is very, very different.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:19

So we, we don't underst, we don't know e-commerce, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:21

We don't have e-commerce clients, so I can't speak to that, not from my own data.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:26

Um, but we, I can tell you that, uh, in crypto, um, I, I'll speak percentages are

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:33

not, you know, they're not dollar numbers.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:35

Percentage

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:29:35

is perfectly fine.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:36

Yeah.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:37

So if you look at crypto, crypto loses, today on everything, on fraud

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:42

prevention, on the network, on K Y C, in friction, all of that, 55 to 60% of

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:48

the revenue, 55 to 60% of the revenue.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:53

I insane.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:54

If you look at gaming, gaming is slightly better.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:29:57

Gaming is in the range of 30, 35%, like half.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:02

Uh, gift cards it depends if you are selling,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:04

If you're selling a, a Visa debit card or, uh, uh, you, you, you

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:09

find yourself in the forties.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:11

If you're selling, uh, you know, uh, you know, restaurants or you know,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:15

fast service businesses, et cetera, you'll, you'll find yourself somewhere

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:19

in the, in the range of 15 to 20%.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:22

But these are, these are the ranges.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:24

You there, there's no one that in our domain, there's no one that declines 5%.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:28

It just doesn't happen.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:29

You're declining 15, 20%.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:31

Or if you're in crypto, you're declining 50 to 60.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:30:33

Well, and digital goods are,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:30:35

are a lot different, right?

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:30:36

Because you're, the immediate delivery requires you to be a

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:30:42

little bit more tightened up on the front end, because like

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:30:47

We've mentioned you don't have time

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:49

Yeah.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:50

It's not

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:30:51

to, to, do additional research.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:30:52

It's either, it's either now or never, is really what it comes into.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:55

right.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:56

But it's more than that actually.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:30:58

So, sorry,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:30:58

Oh no, go, go ahead.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:30:59

Go ahead.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:31:00

Go.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:00

It's, it's more than that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:01

It's, the issue is that it attracts the fraudsters that do this as a business.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:06

It's, there are, there are, in, in general, in this world of payment fraud,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:10

there are two types of fraudsters.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:12

There are the, the, the guys that, that do the one-offs, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:14

They wanna go to New York and not pay for the ticket, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:16

They want to get their hands on a pair of, uh, Nike sneakers they believe

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:20

are gonna be worth, I don't know, much more later or whatever, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:23

So they do a one off transaction, and, and this is prevalent in

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:27

e-commerce, you see that a lot.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:29

There are the, those that do this as a business and, and these people, they,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:33

they go on the dark web, they buy a list of storing financial instruments.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:36

They buy a list of stolen Visa cards or PayPal accounts

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:39

or bank accounts, whatever.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:41

Um, and now they need to turn that into more cash, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:44

Because they pay, they pay 10 to $50 a line.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:47

That's how much it costs a today, that's the going price.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:50

So they need to make more than 10 to $50 on each line.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:53

How do you do that?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:54

When you have a payment instrument?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:55

You buy things and you resell them.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:31:58

Now imagine the difference between buying and reselling a thousand iPhones and

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:02

buying and reselling a thousand gift cards or a thousand game codes for Xbox.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:07

Not the same thing at all.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:08

Not the same thing at all.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:09

And as a result of that, they are they, so the the guys that do this as a

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:14

business, they're much more incentivized to do this on a digital asset or

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:18

a digital good service, much more.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:21

And even more than that, if you think about that, once you started using

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:25

that list of storing financials, there's a window of opportunity.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:28

It's gonna get blocked, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:30

Someone's gonna figure out it got stolen and it's gonna get blocked.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:33

And if you don't, if you don't, if you don't get rid of all of

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:37

that inventory you have within the next couple of hours, it's gone.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:42

You are not gonna be able to use it.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:43

It's gonna get declined everywhere.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:45

So you have to do it, So you have to run a machine.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:48

You have to run a machine, and

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:50

that creates a pattern that is extremely different, extremely

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:54

different from normal e commerce.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:32:55

That's the, that's the core difference.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:32:59

Well, it, it just, the, the

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:00

speed I think is the biggest piece that I'm hearing, right?

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:03

So if, if, if I, if I use a fraudulent card to buy,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:08

All the sizes in, in the Nike sneakers, and I get that.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:13

The amount of time I have to fence those goods is a lot longer before

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:20

somebody catches on versus getting an

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:24

Xbox code.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:25

I ha you know,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:26

I may only have seconds or minutes

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:33:29

sell it immediately.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:33:30

You sell it immediately.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:31

to, to get rid of those

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:32

before it gets caught.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:34

So you're, you're looking at days, weeks, months versus seconds, minutes, maybe

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:39

hours before that pattern gets caught.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:42

And so that is really huge.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:45

how does risk based authentication really protect the legitimate users

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:33:54

while addressing this potential fraudulent activity that happens so fast?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:34:01

Normally today, they just decline more.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:34:03

It's very simple.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:34:04

They just decline more, and that's what we're trying to prevent because

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:34:08

there's no reason to do that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:34:10

There's no reason you assume that there is.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:34:12

First of all, it's true.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:34:13

There is a bigger fraud pressure, no question, but it's not as big as

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:34:17

you think and more than that, if you do a good job, they go elsewhere and

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:34:20

you find yourself dealing with a much smaller fraud pressure, eventually.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:34:24

So you shouldn't assume it's cost of doing business.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:34:28

That's our, that's our motto.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:34:31

So with you spending so much time in

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:34:34

in the crypto space, K Y C or know your customer is a really, really big thing.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:34:42

While it's intended to prevent payment fraud, it often has the

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:34:47

opposite effect due to, you know, lacking universal standards and

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:34:52

a whole bunch of other things.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:34:54

And, and I recently read that in Q2 of this year, that it's

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:34:59

estimated that between 60 and 80% of all the reported fraud

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:35:06

came from users that actually passed K Y C protocols.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:35:10

Now to be super clear, that is, that is in the crypto,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:35:14

The crypto.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:35:14

fiat, the fiat to crypto on ramping.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:35:18

That's where I, I, I found those numbers and I looked at that.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:35:21

What, what are some of the ways that fraudsters are, are able to

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:35:25

bypass these K Y C protocols and

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:35:28

gain access to these approved accounts?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:35:30

Yeah, so fir, first of all, K Y C was

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:35:33

not originally meant for payment fraud.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:35:34

It's being used today for payment fraud.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:35:36

It was originally meant for anti-money laundering, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:35:38

It was, it was all about making sure that people cannot launder

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:35:43

money using these digital.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:35:45

, you know, digital aspects of the, of the FinTech world.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:35:49

And it is today used by, by companies to try and prevent payment fraud

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:35:53

because there's still, they still believe that identity verification

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:35:56

is the right thing to do, and K Y C obviously is the, you know, is the

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:00

biggest Hummer in their toolbox when it comes to identity verification.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:03

However, if you look, uh, uh, if you go back to the dark web, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:07

If you go to the dark web today, um, and I can share with you a little

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:11

bit, um, you know, of a few screen captures of what we, because we crawl

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:15

the web to the dark web to to identify, you know, what, what's going on.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:19

You can buy a Binance account today, for less than a hundred bucks.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:24

A K Y C Binance account for less than a hundred bucks, you can buy

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:28

a Revolut account for 120 bucks.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:30

Some of the lower, you know, some of the smaller exchanges, not more than 50 bucks.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:36

And, and the reason for that is, uh, uh, if you think about, um, yeah,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:40

you know, the, the days where K YC was a, was a physical thing, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:44

You had to come to the bank with your passport, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:46

Or an ID card depending on the country, and the guy there would, uh, would scan

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:52

it, would compare it to the governmental records that he has somewhere and right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:36:58

Imagine what you would need to do in order to create a K Y C verified

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:02

account that is to be sold for fraud.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:08

You have to really go into the bank and do that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:10

You're not gonna be successful a hundred percent of the time.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:13

You're gonna be successful partial.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:15

If you get caught it's a, it's not a great situation.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:19

Not a good

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:37:20

not a good thing to get caught for.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:21

not a good, not a good thing.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:23

Now think about it in the digital world, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:25

So you, you have a, there are operations today that find people

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:32

and they, they would pay them 20 bucks for a K Y C verified account

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:38

on Binance because they know they can sell it for 50 bucks immediately.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:42

And they would activate these people,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:45

and they would activate thousands of people.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:47

They would get hundreds of accounts and they would make tens

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:50

of thousands of dollars that day.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:52

And that's what happens today.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:54

There are people, there are operations and activate people

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:57

from third world countries,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:37:59

for them, $20 is a lot.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:00

If they can do $20 every day for someone else, they don't need to do anything else.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:05

They'll be happy to do that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:06

And they don't care about ya know, the fact that someone's gonna steal something

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:09

from Binance in the Western world,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:11

that's the last thing they care about, and that's what you see happening now.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:15

And the dark web is full of these accounts all for sale.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:38:20

So how does technology really

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:38:23

need to be used in order to fight against this K Y C fraud?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:28

So there, there, there are two things.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:29

One, don't rely on K Y C.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:32

Don't assume that if an account has gone through K Y C, there's no fraud.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:37

Don't assume that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:38

Yeah.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:38

You can, you can reg, you know, use that as part of your data.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:42

Right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:42

It's, you know, you are, um, , obviously in, in crypto I don't think that there's

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:46

anyone that's trying to use rule-based.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:47

So you have a machine that's okay, give it up, give that information

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:51

to the machine as a feature.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:52

But be aware that that does not mean that the account is, is, is foolproof.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:57

Don't use it as a rule.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:59

That's number one.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:38:59

And

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:00

number two, find other ways.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:02

Find other ways and what, what we've done.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:04

I can tell you that today we're not using the K Y the, we we're using K Y C data.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:08

We're not using whether it was verified or not, because we found that the K

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:12

Y C data is interesting to look at, whether you have gone through it or not,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:17

we don't, we disregard that because it skews our decisions.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:21

So we stop that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:22

Um, and, and we're using the behavior analytics that I just mentioned.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:26

And I'll give you an example.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:28

So you remember we said the guys need to go fast, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:32

They need to, need to work with their, you know, with their credit cards they have,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:37

they have a thousand credit cards now.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:38

They need to get rid of them in an hour and they have to create an attack and

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:43

it creates something that looks, the pattern looks very similar to DDoS,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:47

To distribute a denial of service.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:48

It's like a wave of seemingly legitimate individuals.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:52

They're coming, they're not trying by the way to crash your servers.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:56

The only thing they're trying to do is to buy as much as they can.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:58

That's it.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:39:59

So how can you identify that there's such a pattern?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:02

and they're coming from different IP addresses, using

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:05

different payment instruments.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:06

They're, they're doing a good job.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:08

So I, I'll give you an example of something that we, that

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:11

we found out that works.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:12

So let's assume you're, uh, looking at how long a person,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:16

hesitates before they decide whether they purchase a Bitcoin or an Ether,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:20

let's assume you are looking at that.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:22

And you've identified a consumer coming in and it takes

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:26

12.3 seconds to, uh, make that decision.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:29

Okay, now there's nothing you can do about it.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:32

The second person comes in a second later and he hesitates for 12.3

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:36

seconds as well on that same decision.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:38

That's interesting.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:40

The fifth or sixth person you're gonna say, okay.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:43

I get it.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:43

There's, they look coming from different places.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:46

They're actually coming there.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:48

It's a ring.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:48

it's an orchestrated attack and you can stop it at that point.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:52

And, but to identify that, you have to look at hundreds of thousands

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:40:56

of such features and identify the patterns that emerge in real time.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:41:02

So that you can identify the pattern fast enough and block it

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:41:06

before it becomes too devastating.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:41:07

So you cannot afford, you cannot stop all the fraud, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:41:10

So the first three, four, or five transactions they will go through,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:41:13

but you will stop the rest of it, and then he'll need to regroup

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:41:17

and do something different.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:41:19

And then again, you'll catch him after four or five transactions,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:41:22

et cetera, et cetera.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:41:24

So just as an example.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:41:26

Yeah, just as an example.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:41:26

Yeah, a Alex.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:41:28

you and I talked about this earlier, like I'm a huge data geek, so I love trying

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:41:32

to figure out like the way data can be used and different data lake models and

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:41:37

different machine learning models and, and just kind of all that anomaly detection

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:41:42

I get excited about it when I start to learn more about it.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:41:44

So we could talk about this for days, but what do you hope that the audience of

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:41:52

FinTech Confidential will walk away with after watching or listening this episode?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:41:59

Number one don't treat fraud

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:01

as cost of doing business.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:03

It doesn't have to be.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:04

Number two is, um, if you are in this digital, uh, uh, assets or digital

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:11

good domain, , make sure that what you're doing is, uh, is adapted to your

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:17

domain and is not, you know, and is not inter, you know, is, is not trying to

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:21

be copied for e-commerce, et cetera.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:23

It doesn't work.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:24

It's not the same thing.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:26

Number three is what we've discussed.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:28

Don't try to build rules.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:30

Don't try to build rules you have to use, it's a machine learning game.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:34

There's no point in trying to do anything else.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:37

No point.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:38

That's it.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:42:40

Oh,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:42:41

well, last question that may, may cause a little bit of thought for you,

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:42:46

if you were to give FinTech founders just one piece of advice to build a

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:42:52

successful company, what would that be?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:57

So, yeah, you know, we, that, that's a

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:42:58

piece that we have spoken about before.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:00

But, uh, so

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:02

my first advice would be don't do it.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:04

But the second one, once you've decided if that's something you really wanna

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:08

do, I would say, Um, be careful on when you decide you wanna start to scale.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:14

Because in, in FinTech,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:17

, margins are thin, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:18

It's, um, it's, it's difficult to deliver because, because the

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:22

competition is so, is so fierce.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:24

The market is so, you know, the market is so, um, educated, right?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:29

You're, you're talking to people who understand what they're doing there,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:33

and, and as a result, you have to deliver the value in the right way.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:37

don't make the assumption that if you have, you know, three, four clients

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:41

that are paying you tens of thousands of dollars, you've figured out product market

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:45

fit, you have a good salespeople, you are gonna ramp it up to 50 and you're gonna

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:51

be doing a hundred times more next year.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:53

It's just not gonna happen.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:54

It's not gonna happen.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:55

You have to figure out the model really well.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:43:58

You have to assume that acquiring the customers is gonna be more

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:02

expensive later and not cheaper.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:04

A lot of people believe that customer acquisition goes, goes down.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:08

It doesn't.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:09

It goes up.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:10

Plan for it.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:11

Don't start scaling before you really have it nailed down.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:15

Cuz if you do that,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:16

you end up nowhere.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:17

We see a lot of FinTech companies that have a great idea.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:20

They prove it can work.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:22

They get a product market fit, people are willing to pay for

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:25

it, and then they start scaling.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:27

They scale too fast and they fall on their face.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:29

And then no one's really willing to back them up again.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:44:32

And, and it's a lot of, a lot of companies lose because of that.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:44:37

That is fantastic advice.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:44:41

thank you for sake taking so much time out of your evening there in Israel.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:44:45

as we've talked, Tel Aviv is one of my favorite places, uh, to, to be.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:44:50

Um, I'm honestly jealous of the fact that you're there and I'm here in Arizona.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:44:56

But thank you for joining.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:44:58

What I'm gonna do is in the show notes and in the descriptions, I'm gonna go ahead

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:45:02

and put all the links on how to get ahold of, of nSure.ai, how to get ahold of Alex.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:45:08

If you wanna learn things about it, some, some tools, and some resources

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:45:13

that they provide, I'm gonna go ahead and put that in description so you guys

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:45:15

can click on it and go straight to it.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:45:17

Alex, any, any closing words before, uh, we call it a day?

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:45:23

No, I think it's a, for me, it's been,

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:45:25

it's always a pleasure and, and, you know, I enjoy speaking about our product.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:45:28

Obviously, I'm passionate about it.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:45:30

As you can see, I'm passionate about the industry, so it's always a pleasure.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:45:33

Really.

Alex_Zeltcer CEO & CoFounder nSure.AI:

: 00:45:34

Thank you for, you know, for giving me the chance to speak to you.

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:45:37

Alex, thanks again and I, I

Tedd Huff, Host - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:45:40

really appreciate the time.

: 00:45:41

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