!!APPLICATION DECLINED!! It’s not you... It’s your Smartphone’s Metadata.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:00:00

Don't listen to VCs.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:00:03

VCs are helpful of course.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:00:06

we all need capital to grow, capital to bring an idea from being just

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:00:14

an idea into an actual product.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:00:16

However,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:00:17

the objectives of VCs are not necessarily, or not always aligned with the

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:00:23

objectives of you as an entrepreneur.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:00:25

Focus on profitability

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:00:28

rather than growth at any cost.

Huff - Fintech Confidential: 00:00:30

Hey, Tedd Huff here from FinTech Confidential.

Huff - Fintech Confidential: 00:00:33

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Welcome to FinTech Confidential, bringing you the people, tech and companies

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that change how you pay and get paid.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:02:02

Michele, welcome to the show.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:02:06

Thank you Tedd Good to be here.

- Fintech Confidential, Host: 00:02:08

So folks, today we're diving into the world

- Fintech Confidential, Host: 00:02:10

of Digital scorecards with Michele Tucci, the Chief Strategy Officer in Managing

- Fintech Confidential, Host: 00:02:16

Director for America's for Credolabs.

- Fintech Confidential, Host: 00:02:19

Credolab is a revolutionary smartphone metadata analysis tool, and Michele has

- Fintech Confidential, Host: 00:02:26

been shaking up FinTech from Capital One all the way over to CredoLab

- Fintech Confidential, Host: 00:02:31

with a career spanning over 47 countries and turning smartphones

- Fintech Confidential, Host: 00:02:36

into crystal balls for credit risk.

- Fintech Confidential, Host: 00:02:39

He's here to tell us how Credolab is making the world

- Fintech Confidential, Host: 00:02:42

of credit a whole lot smarter.

- Fintech Confidential, Host: 00:02:46

Now, before we dive in, Michele, I need to understand like how did

- Fintech Confidential, Host: 00:02:51

you fall into FinTech and what has kept the spark alive for you?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:02:57

Yeah.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:02:58

Thank you Tedd.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:02:59

Uh, FinTech, I think I've been into FinTech before it was even sexy,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:04

before it was even called FinTech.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:07

No, banks at the end of the day are, uh, technology companies

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:11

and with a banking license.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:14

I used to work for a bank in Italy, but actually before

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:17

that Capital One in Italy, when.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:19

Continental Europe, and I'm originally Italian, continental Europe, from

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:24

a capital one point of view was considered as an emerging market.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:28

Imagine that back in, in 2000.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:31

Now, emerging markets are different.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:33

You know, emerging markets are Southeast Asia, Latin America,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:37

Africa, at that point, Italy, ,Spain, France were considered from

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:41

a US point of view, like emerging.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:44

that's where I started,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:46

applying what I knew about consumer behaviors, about preferences

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:52

for credit versus debit,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:03:54

to consumer finance products and, uh, credit cards specifically.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:00

that, I went to get my mba.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:03

I got, uh, into MasterCard and that's where the world

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:09

as I knew changed completely.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:11

That's where tech really came, uh, became a, a massive part of my job.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:17

And, uh, Combining tech with, uh, uh, analyzing preferences, analyzing

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:23

behaviors, analyzing why people spend the way they do, uh, the, the transactional

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:28

patterns and, uh, why the debit cards are preferred to credit cards in in a country.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:36

Those reasons are different from, uh, another country.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:40

um, and that's where, uh, I moved from MasterCard to a mobile

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:45

payments, uh, company, uh, P.O.S.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:48

Terminals in Asia, where not very famous.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:52

former square was just starting in the us That

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:04:57

Mm-hmm.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:04:58

that

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:04:58

was 2009 and we were already pushing

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:05:01

for, uh, mobile payment terminals in,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:05:03

Southeast Asia for instance, or, uh, even Australia, New Zealand.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:05:08

And, uh, from that I went onto a private equity fund.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:05:12

Which invested 2 billion FinTech assets.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:05:16

I was working on finding technologies that would enable these FinTech

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:05:21

assets, mostly lenders, digital lenders, to approve more customers,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:05:27

to be smarter in the way they were either servicing these customers or,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:05:32

um, approving them in the first place.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:05:35

And, um, and then I found,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:05:38

Credolab I joined them and, uh, has been five years in the making,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:05:44

uh, still having a lot of fun.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:05:45

Still a lot to do and, uh, still think FinTech is the place to be.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:05:51

Michele, you've, you've conducted

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:05:53

business in over 47 countries.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:05:55

you've just mentioned a few of the areas, cards, payments,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:05:59

wallets, lending, investing, other digital products in FinTech.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:06:06

How has this diverse experience shaped your perspective on how

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:06:10

the FinTech industry is evolving?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:13

The FinTech industry is evolving

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:16

in different directions.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:18

I would say that execution and innovate product innovation can play equally good

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:26

roles the US or developed countries.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:30

You tend to focus on product innovation, in emerging markets

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:35

you focus more on execution.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:37

Now, there are plenty of.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:39

Copycats,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:40

That were successful in the US and then were replicated elsewhere, team.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:46

I see also this trend changing Asia leading the way in

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:51

terms of mobile payments.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:52

Uh, think about QR codes in China,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:06:55

Mm-hmm.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:56

in, uh, Southeast Asia.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:06:58

They became a lot more successful, uh, and a lot faster than NFC payments ever did,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:05

uh, in, in, uh, Europe, uh, uk, in the us.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:09

So there is a difference where the tech companies are pushing

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:14

for the latest technology.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:16

N F C contact list.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:18

And on the flip side, you see Chinese,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:22

tech companies focusing on what people have today.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:25

They have a camera merchants, they don't need to have the

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:29

fanciest, latest post terminal.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:31

They can just print a Q code.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:07:34

Mm-hmm.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:34

print QR codes, you scan QR codes, and

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:38

right there you have mobile payments.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:40

the next logical evolution for them was QR codes interoperability and the ability

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:47

to use the same wallet in China elsewhere.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:52

Now we are, from that point of view, the US or NFC technology allowed for a

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:07:59

smoother transition because the technology was already the same everywhere,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:08:06

but they required also investment in, uh, point of sale terminals.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:08:10

The FinTech is evolving and um, I think as long as we have the customer at the

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:08:15

end, at the center of what we do, then we are all going to into the same point.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:08:24

If you were to describe your

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:08:27

journey so far in FinTech

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:08:30

Yeah,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:08:32

using a movie title, what would it be?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:08:39

well top of mind comes top

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:08:42

gun maverick, but my friends will laugh at me and my ego.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:08:48

Because, uh, nobody believed in him.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:08:52

I also come from a small village uh, in, uh, Southern Italy.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:08:57

I made a career out of something that even my father today gave up understanding

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:09:05

and, uh, he gave up understanding what I do already 15 years ago, maybe se 16, he.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:09:14

And he told me,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:09:15

I don't know what you do, I see you happy and that's good enough for me.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:09:20

Hmm.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:09:21

And he's 88 today.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:09:23

Uh, go explain how we turn, for instance, smartphone data into

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:09:28

a, uh, credit risk assessment.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:09:32

Yeah.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:09:32

Oh, that gives me chills just thinking about that because I, I had a similar

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:09:36

conversation with, with my grandfather before he passed, and, and that was,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:09:41

that was something that was really, that, I mean, that, that holds me true.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:09:44

And my, my dad still doesn't understand it either.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:09:46

Just like yours.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:09:47

And he's just, he's just happy that I'm, I'm having fun with it as well.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:09:51

Michele, with over two decades of experience in FinTech, what

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:09:55

is the most important thing that you have learned so far?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:01

Am I that old?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:03

Two decades.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:04

The, the way you put it now, it makes me feel already, uh, Okay.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:11

I didn't realize I have two decades of experience.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:14

Yes, you're right.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:15

The most important thing I think I learned is to listen to your clients, um,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:23

whether they are consumers or clients.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:28

They drive product development.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:31

They drive their feedback, your your feed, their feedback drives the way

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:40

the product eventually will be shaped.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:43

When we launched mobile payments in the past, in one of the companies I

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:49

worked for, we made one crucial mistake.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:10:52

We thought that by skipping one logical step in the,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:11:00

features that the pro that the market expected the product to have,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:11:04

would've been a differentiating point.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:11:07

And in fact, decision led to the company being sold for one euro to, to a

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:11:15

wow.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:11:17

So if we listened to the market than

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:11:25

idea of what the market wanted, I think we could still be alive as a company.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:11:32

And this holds true also for,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:11:34

Consumer feedback.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:11:35

No, you may have, um, an M v mvp, a minimum viable product that works

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:11:42

and you have some initial traction, but, uh, you probably need to

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:11:48

invest more to find market fit And market fit without product fit,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:11:55

doesn't allow you to scale and vice versa.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:11:59

So this is something that I learned later on by talking to VCs, to raise funds.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:12:05

They have product fit late and also market fit.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:12:11

And initially I thought this was, uh, kind of a checklist for VCs,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:12:16

useless as an entrepreneur, we, we are building companies.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:12:21

We are bringing, products to market, and we want these products to be

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:12:27

bought by, by c clients and VCs are not charity organizations.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:12:33

They will invest if they see uh, but, uh, growth to, for the

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:12:40

sake of growth is not healthy.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:12:43

So

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:12:43

Fit, market fit, they all together, but prefer it to be in a coherent path

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:12:53

towards sustainability, uh, sustainable growth rather than double digit growth.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:12:59

They will only please investors and, uh, and nobody else.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:13:04

with you talking about product market fit.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:13:09

Credolab is revolutionizing FinTech

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:13:13

With it's digital scorecards, and this is all based on smartphone metadata analysis.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:13:19

Could you share just a little bit more about the vision and mission of

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:13:23

Credolab before we dive in too deep?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:13:26

Sure.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:13:27

The vision of Credolab is to enable more people to have access to

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:13:33

financial services at fair terms.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:13:37

And the problem that we are solving is lack of data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:13:41

way we know access to credit in, uh, developed countries is

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:13:45

different from the way people access credit in emerging markets.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:13:50

Uh, in, uh, the, in the us having a credit score is, Almost a

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:13:57

requirement, even on dating apps.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:13:59

I found women asking if you have credit score below seven 50, swipe left.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:14:08

So from a US point of view, that became,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:14:12

even to, to an extreme that I don't necessarily agree with.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:14:16

But if I don't have a credit score and I'm new to the us so I didn't have a credit

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:14:20

score at that point, then what do I do?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:14:23

I cannot even date.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:14:24

So we found is that smartphone data be rich depicting an image of a

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:14:34

user, any user, and calculating their probability to default a payment.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:14:41

So we found smartphone metadata as a way to compensate for

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:14:50

the lack of traditional data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:14:53

To assess customers.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:14:55

And,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:14:56

the problem is that if you don't have credit history, if you don't

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:00

have, uh, credit bureau scores, then traditional banks, they rely on,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:06

uh, obsolete underwriting models.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:09

Their best way to proceed is to just reject your application.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:16

that's not fair.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:18

And that leaves millions, literally millions of people behind excluded.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:24

we know that,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:25

from the World Bank, the um, number of unbanked people globally went

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:30

down from 1.7 billion to 1.1.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:34

And, and that's good news, but

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:36

there is still 1.1 billion people outside of the mainstream

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:41

financial services ecosystem.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:44

How do we bridge that gap?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:47

Guess what These people most likely have a smartphone, these people by simply using

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:54

the smartphone for their day-to-day lives.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:15:57

WhatsApping, somebody even sending a an s m s actually generates a footprint can

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:16:02

be mined in all the privacy compliance

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:16:05

without compromising data protection.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:16:08

But all this data can be mined a, what I believe to be a noble, uh, noble

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:16:14

case, which is financial inclusion.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:16:18

So I was doing a little bit of

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:16:19

research and looking through the social medias and all this fun stuff

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:16:23

and there was something on your Twitter page that I would

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:16:28

really love to understand.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:16:30

that you aim to change the way the world looks at credit.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:16:36

How is Credolab doing that?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:16:39

are trying to change the way.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:16:43

Financial institutions look at people, look at applications of, a credit card,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:16:49

a personal loan, a buy now pay later, an auto loan, uh, two-wheeler loan, anything.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:16:55

banks have an institutionals role to, to push the economy of

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:03

the country they serve forward.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:06

credit has a

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:07

vital role for small businesses to grow, for people to realize their dreams.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:13

But if these people, very people and very,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:15

business owners don't have access to credit, then whatever great ideas

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:19

they have cannot be implemented.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:20

Even working capital for a small business owner is crucial

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:24

for him to grow her to grow.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:26

The way Credolab works allows banks to change the way they

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:31

look at customers complimenting their traditional underwriting

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:38

processes something that is modern,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:40

something that is based on today's data, something that is based on

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:46

data that each individual user generates today in real time.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:51

fresh data is, it doesn't get any better than that

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:17:55

when you think about assessing loan application, you want to have the

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:02

freshest data, most, uh, relevant data for that particular individual.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:08

and even credit Bureau scores, however important they are, they may not always

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:13

be updated they may not always be correct.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:19

Even

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:20

In fact, in the US for instance, there is a federal law called the

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:25

Fair Credit Reporting Act, which allows individuals to request for

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:32

a change in information in their credit report that is being wrongly

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:36

reported and may have led to a rejection, in Credolabs case.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:43

You cannot change the way you,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:45

acted on your smartphone.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:47

You cannot change or amend how many apps you downloaded, your

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:52

app installation patterns.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:53

You cannot change

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:54

how many selfies you took.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:18:57

Which could be correlated with a lower propensity to repay a loan,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:19:02

for instance.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:19:03

the ability us to match

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:19:06

to your behaviors on the smartphone really correlates statistically with

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:19:13

a propensity to repay a loan or not.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:19:16

So I'm assuming with all of this

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:19:17

data that you're collecting,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:19:19

you guys are are pulling it together, working through it, using

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:19:25

AI and machine learning and AI and machine learning is still sort of

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:19:31

a black box for a lot of people.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:19:35

How is Credolab working to change that particular perception

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:19:39

of it being a black box

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:19:43

Uh, first of all, we don't use ai.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:19:46

So we use machine learning of the vast amount of data that

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:19:51

we process, we don't use ai.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:19:54

And the reason is that AI generates black boxes and we uh, find helpful

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:20:03

in, uh, selling black boxes.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:20:05

So the, um, and also there is a principle that always applies to any big data,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:20:14

solution.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:20:14

Garbage in, garbage out.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:20:18

If you have, wrong data or unstructured data or uncleaned data in the modeling

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:20:29

pipeline, then you'll have a, an outcome that will not be useful.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:20:35

So when we started working, and this was back in 2016.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:20:40

We started analyzing device, uh, fingerprints and uh,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:20:45

on Android and iOS both.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:20:48

And

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:20:48

we realized that this is the same kind of data everywhere.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:20:53

So we standardized to access the raw data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:21:00

also created a way to generate a data set without compromising the user's identity.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:21:09

So our data sets are always anonymized, but also standardized globally.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:21:14

So if you are a multi refinance, uh, multinational company that has

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:21:19

operations in multiple countries,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:21:21

you can rely on a dataset that is always the same which adds a lot of

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:21:27

benefits from a data point of view.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:21:29

So back to the AI ml kind of, uh, kind of question deem, you analyze on average,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:21:38

70,000 data points, Per client, you need to have algorithms that are

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:21:45

able to eliminate the noise from the big data and to focus on those

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:21:54

data points that are predictive,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:21:56

that have local relation with each other.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:21:58

Because you want to increase the predictive power of, of the end outcome.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:22:04

what we also did in terms of explaining score, explaining the output to our

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:22:12

clients to use net logistic regression as the very last step of our calculations.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:22:21

And the reason is that, well, first of all, it works.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:22:25

You don't need any fancy AI generate a predictive score.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:22:30

And second banks are used to,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:22:33

Work with net logistic regression so they understand it.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:22:37

So from a statistical point of view, we can easily explain having too many

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:22:44

selfies bad for your, uh, credit score.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:22:48

Alternative credit score.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:22:51

You mentioned you, you guys aren't doing

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:22:53

anything with ai, but your proprietary technology is based on machine learning

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:23:01

algorithms and doing the research.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:23:04

It looks like it could do over 10 million different behavioral features.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:23:08

what are the key problems in FinTech that this specific

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:23:15

technology is designed to solve?

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:23:19

how does it solve this data?

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:23:21

When you have a disparity between a low end Android handset all

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:23:28

the way up to the super high-end

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:23:31

iPhone 14 Pro Max device, you've got that big disparity.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:23:38

How are you helping solve that technology gap?

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:23:43

With this solution,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:23:47

we solved a problem by letting

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:23:50

the algorithms identify the data points that are predictive.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:23:54

So there is no, uh, human bias, uh, brought into the

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:24:00

models and, fun fact perhaps,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:24:03

iPhone users tend to be less risky than Samsung users.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:24:07

In our experience, and users tend to be less risky than Huawei users.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:24:13

So by looking

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:24:15

at the device brand itself, you could already get a sense how risky an applicant

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:24:22

may be, but that alone may not be enough to reject or approve a customer.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:24:29

Myself, for instance, I'm a Samsung advocate, I'll never buy iPhones, and

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:24:36

does it make me less good of a repayer because my preference is for an Android

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:24:42

operating system versus an iOS one Other elements are driven simply by statistics,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:24:50

simply by value a raw data point.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:24:56

And, uh, you, you mentioned that we have 10 million behavioral

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:01

features, which we do with part of credolab's, intellectual property.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:05

we have engineered so many features because we don't want

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:09

to leave any, any stone unturned.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:12

So imagine you are Nigeria in the US or uh, in Japan.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:20

Your behavior as an applicant are, uh, completely different.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:25

And so when we, however, you are using an Android device,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:30

you are using an iOS device.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:32

How do we make sense of these behavioral nuances, uh, to allow

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:38

you to be scored in a fair way?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:42

That's why we go so wide, 10 million behavioral features and then we narrow

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:47

down through quite greedy algorithms and quite fast about 5,000 features.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:54

So we go super wide until we go super narrow to identify the

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:25:59

micro behavioral patterns that are predictive for you, right?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:26:05

You as an individual.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:26:07

That is very interesting.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:26:10

I'm sitting here thinking and going through it.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:26:14

, just looking at all these different data points.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:26:17

You mentioned selfies, you've mentioned number of applications.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:26:22

There's so much data in there, and I'm starting to wonder okay, so what

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:26:26

behaviors do I have that, that show it?

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:26:31

Uh, and, and, and the other piece that starts to come into mind is the problem

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:26:35

that, that I'm seeing Credolab solving

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:26:38

is the non-traditional lenders.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:26:42

That are going after the, the underbanked or unbanked folks.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:26:51

how are they going to implement or bring Credolab into either their

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:26:57

mobile application, their website?

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:27:00

Like how is that actually done

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:27:03

for our, our good FinTech founders out there

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:27:05

that are watching and listening,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:27:08

Yeah, it's done by integrating a

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:27:11

small library of code into their mobile app, into their website,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:27:17

or both if they are, using both.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:27:20

And it's a proprietary, SDK software development kit, uh,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:27:25

quite light, unintrusive that can be deployed in, uh, as little as

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:27:32

two days after the prioritization.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:27:35

It prioritization is done, uh, which usually

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:27:38

always prioritization.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:27:40

right, and it usually takes a lot longer

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:27:42

than the actual coding, we opted for an SDK integration because it allows us

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:27:49

to create a closed loop between us, the user and the financial institution so

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:27:57

that it also allows us to protect data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:01

We only use data that we access and process through our proprietary SDKs,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:08

we access data of that customer only.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:12

Within the context of that customer applying a personal loan with

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:19

that that is client of Credolab.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:23

So we don't buy data from any third party.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:25

We don't need to.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:27

We don't even need to know the identity of the user.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:29

We don't know if Tedd or Michele is applying for a loan.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:33

We just know that one device is coming through the door and we generate a

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:39

score for that particular device.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:42

This protects the user's data, insulates the financial institution from

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:48

reputational risks case of data breach and keeps Cradle Labs safe because we

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:28:58

don't process personal data at all.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:01

Although on the surface it looks like we access a lot of data,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:05

actually, we use this data only for one purpose, which is allowing

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:09

people to be scored at fair terms.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:12

And we don't sell data to any third party.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:16

we use the same data to, uh, detect fraud.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:20

And whenever a financial institution goes into the bottom of the pyramid,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:26

the unbanked customers or, um, the so-called theme files, that's

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:32

where have less data available.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:36

And, uh, that's where also, uh, fraud is more, uh, prevailing.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:41

Uh, first party fraud, for instance, a big pain point for any digital lender.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:48

So how do you know if the customer is manipulating data?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:53

That's a simple thing to do if you have Credolab's, uh, technology embedded.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:29:58

No, we look at the way you type, how familiar you are with the

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:02

data you're typing without even knowing what are you typing.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:06

that's the beauty of the technology as well.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:09

So we look at, uh, how long it takes for you to type Tedd versus, how, how many

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:16

times you've changed the income value.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:20

So that form of data manipulation can be easily detected.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:25

but also imagine the way you are using the mouse or the finger on the screen.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:29

human behavior is such that you kind of move not irrationally, but, uh,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:36

you don't follow straight lines.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:38

But if you are a bot, you go the way down, you go the way left, right, diagonally.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:43

when you play, the session of an interaction, uh, and comparing

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:49

the human interaction with a body interaction, then it's obvious

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:54

that, uh, uh, the two are different.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:30:56

So we can detect the bots in this way as well.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:30:59

Oh, wow.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:31:00

and this is all without friction

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:31:01

added to the end user experience.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:31:04

So what we don't wanna do is to ask end users to do something else.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:31:10

And if you are a good customer, if you are a genuine you shouldn't be worried

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:31:14

about cred technology being there, analyzing the way you are typing,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:31:20

the way you're using your smartphone.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:31:21

You have nothing to hide.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:31:23

If you are a delinquent customer, that's when you should worry.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:31:28

an American Banker article

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:31:29

that I read about Credolab

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:31:32

it brought up the, the issue of, of Credit Invisibles and kind of

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:31:37

their behavior in your opinion.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:31:41

How does Credolab solution address the issue of Credit Invisibles?

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from August 23rd through the 25th where it's all about the movement of money.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:32:37

so credit Invisibles are a big

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:32:40

problem in, uh, globally, actually.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:32:44

in the US alone you have about 54 million credit invisibles.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:32:49

You have five point five billion million Brits that are crediting visibles.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:32:53

It's not just the unbanked in India.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:32:56

And, um, the, the way we work allows our clients, the financial institutions to.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:06

Understand these customers understand gig economy workers.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:11

Imagine so they don't have a stable income like my father used to know.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:17

banks today, still hope you do.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:20

No, you, they want you to see, uh, they want you to have salary.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:26

But what if you are a driver for Uber or you deliver food, then

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:31

you don't have a stable income.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:33

But that doesn't mean you are not credit worthy.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:38

So we are trying to change the way banks and lenders in general

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:43

at everybody without building biases into the assessment uh,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:49

because they don't have what,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:51

probably an older guy would think.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:54

That's a standard job, a normal job.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:56

What, what is normal today?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:33:57

Uh, it's a different millennials, they don't like credit.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:03

So because of their personal preference towards using debit cards

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:10

more than credit cards, they don't generate credit history kind of data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:16

they automatically become thin files at credit bureaus.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:34:21

Mm-hmm.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:21

they may have a bank account, but

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:23

they don't have a credit card.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:24

Why?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:25

Because they don't need one or they don't like one.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:28

Does

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:28

it mean they, they are not credit worthy?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:32

believe so.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:33

So kind of equalize the way that any financial institution, whether

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:39

conventional or not, uh, look at individuals on the way they use their

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:34:44

smartphones, based on the way they type, they interact with any user interface.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:34:51

With there being this catch 22,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:34:54

in the credit worthiness I think you just mentioned with millennials

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:34:58

where they have a thin file.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:35:01

How is Credolab aiming to use the behavioral data that we've

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:35:06

talked about to achieve this greater financial and inclusion?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:35:13

It's simple.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:35:15

We complement the existing underwriting processes that leverage

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:35:21

traditional data with behavioral data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:35:25

In other words, we don't, not advocating for banks to change the way they, uh,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:35:33

look at these millennials or gig economy workers team files in general.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:35:38

We are bringing a new and complimentary type of score, type of data them to have

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:35:49

a better understanding of these people.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:35:52

we're not advocating for a bank to forgo the credit score.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:35:57

that's important.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:35:58

That helps you, helps the bank assess the ability of a customer to repay.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:36:04

Just like we're not advocating for, lenders, uh, not to use transactional

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:36:10

data like open banking kind of data played or, um, Or similar.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:36:16

We are supplementing the existing assessment with a new layer that

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:36:22

sits on top of the existing layers of assessment that is behavioral in nature.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:36:28

one example I always like to do uh, imagine Tedd, you and I, we

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:36:33

have the same salary, uh, we have the same credit bureau score.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:36:38

And, uh, if the bank is assessing our application by using this

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:36:42

traditional means, will most likely approve both of us.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:36:48

However, from a behavioral assessment, it looks like the Tedd has a higher

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:36:55

probability to repay the loan than does.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:36:59

In other words, the by complimenting the existing traditional way of approving

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:37:08

or, uh, uh, assessing customers, we help our clients answer two key questions.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:37:15

Can the customer pay back and will the customer pay back?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:37:20

bureau, uh, transactional data?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:37:23

They help you answer the first question.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:37:26

to repay, uh, affordability checks.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:37:30

What about the other?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:37:32

Will the customer repay?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:37:33

So when you combine the two together, you have the best

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:37:37

assessment yet of any individual.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:37:43

the additional data that comes into play.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:37:47

And creating a cohesive customer experience requires all the

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:37:52

players to work together.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:37:55

How is Credolab ensuring this in its operations and the product offerings?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:02

It's very straightforward.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:04

We are an embedded scoring technology provider, we are embedded the front end.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:12

being a mobile app or a website, which, uh, thanks to Covid also,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:18

I mean, that's perhaps one of the few good things of Covid.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:21

Now, banks, most lenders have, uh, a mobile app for originations.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:27

If not, they have an app for account management or portfolio management and a

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:33

website to originate, uh, new customers.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:35

So, either ways, we have a way to, uh, collect data by being embedded in that

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:42

very front end, and we do it in a way that doesn't generate any friction.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:48

uh, of course customers, the end users, they have to grant privacy

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:53

consent for us to access data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:55

but guess what?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:56

The data is.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:38:58

We, we are a data processor.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:00

The data controller still, the bank is still the, by now pay later, player.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:07

So, The end users have to trust the lender they are applying for a loan

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:13

with, they don't need to trust Credolab.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:16

once we get the privacy consent, then on mobiles we need to have

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:21

the permission to access data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:23

So there are at least two layers of security that are in full

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:28

control of the individual.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:31

We cannot influence that.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:32

Not even our clients can influence how much data end user grants us access to.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:40

the advantage of using Credolab versus providers is that we don't

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:47

generate in the onboarding process.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:51

And we also com, uh, help our clients to protect their data,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:39:56

the end users to choose how much data they're actually

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:40:00

willing to give access to.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:40:03

the reality is that if you are a fraudster or if you are not a genuine customer,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:40:10

you will try to deny access to data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:40:13

Why?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:40:13

Because you're trying to, um, hinder our ability to detect you as a fraudster,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:40:20

but, uh, uh, the genuine customers have nothing to hide again, right?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:40:26

the point is that we can generate a score even with a minimal data being granted,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:40:34

uh, access to, uh, from the end users.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:40:37

that's part of our technologies

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:40:40

we want to respect how comfortable people are to, uh, grant access to

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:40:46

data, and yet being able to deliver something predictive, uh, to our clients.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:40:52

Getting people comfortable with

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:40:54

sharing that data comes around, having them understand the privacy

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:41:00

and the security that goes around it.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:41:02

How does Credolab ensure the privacy and security of the data it processes?

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:41:08

Given this is extremely sensitive,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:41:10

data around their financial lives.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:14

Oh, we make no mystery

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:16

of the data we access.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:18

Actually, if you go to Credolab.com, you can read exactly what data we

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:23

access, why we access data, how we process data, what do we do with the

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:28

data after a financial institution terminates the agreement with Credolab.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:33

So we destroy data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:34

Short answer.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:35

So, we don't, we have nothing to hide.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:39

And our privacy notice, uh, we have one for the GDPR in Europe, one for the,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:45

uh, California residents, uh, which is the strictest in the US for instance.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:51

we have, but guess what?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:53

I'm in Florida.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:54

Nobody cares about the C C P A, right?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:57

The California Consumer Protection Act.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:41:59

And, there are few jurisdictions, uh, only a few actually.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:03

So there is Brazil, South Africa, Indonesia, India, Vietnam.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:08

They all require data residency.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:12

the personal data of the data subject, basically the individual

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:17

must stay within the country.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:20

when this is a requirement, uh, we do deploy a cloud

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:25

instance within the country.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:27

So we don't process personal data, don't process personally

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:32

identifiable information.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:34

P i i,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:42:35

Mm-hmm.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:36

find it easier for our clients to

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:38

adopt our technology by knowing that the metadata they personalized and

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:44

anonymized has stored within the country.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:47

All of this is public information for us.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:50

We don't make any mystery and, um, uh, and that's what our clients

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:56

and that's why they come to us.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:42:58

Now the next step, because we are simply a data processor, is to convince our

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:43:07

clients to be as transparent in their own data privacy In their own notices that are

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:43:15

available on their websites or mobile app.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:43:17

And most of them actually are quite transparent and,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:43:22

they realize that if you do process data in the right way, then there

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:43:27

is no harm in being transparent about, uh, the way you do business.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:43:33

your type of data that you're

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:43:34

pulling is all behavioral, around how they use the device and the

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:43:38

different devices that, that they are using, uh, that are connected to,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:43:45

I guess, their profile at Credolab.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:43:48

How should the listeners and viewers.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:43:52

Differentiate what Credolab does to determine credit worthiness versus a Plaid

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:44:01

or Finicity, For a financial institution or a lender, I should say, it doesn't

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:44:09

have to be a financial institution.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:44:10

Plaid, and Finicity, solve a problem,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:44:13

but they don't solve all problems.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:44:16

They can help you access, help you as a lender access data related

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:44:22

to the bank account history.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:44:24

So they help you with the affordability checks.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:44:29

They help you to understand how much loan, uh, amount particular

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:44:37

individual can afford to repay based on the analysis of the past x

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:44:43

month worth of transactional data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:44:46

guess what, there is only one single valuable data point in that

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:44:51

analysis whether or not you received your salary in the last month.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:44:58

Because no matter how much you were able to repay the last 11 months, if

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:04

you didn't get your salary last month,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:07

you are not gonna pass the test.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:09

So we are different from the Plaid, and Finicity's of the world because we are.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:16

Giving a, an assessment of the user based on their behavior on the mobile.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:22

So let, let me give you some example, Plaid, and Finicity.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:26

They look at your disposable income.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:28

They look at, uh, money in and money out.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:31

They look at merchant categories.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:33

Uh, how did you spend the money out?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:36

the idea uh, having access to your Spotify subscription or whether or not

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:42

you pay for the Netflix subscription has any meaningful impact on your, credit,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:49

uh, risk assessment is wishful thinking.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:52

In my mind.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:45:53

It's just a hook, a marketing hook to, uh, to, uh, reel people in, into

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:46:00

the idea of, permissioning giving you access to these type of data.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:46:05

Mm-hmm.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:46:06

we look at data that is

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:46:08

already on your mobile.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:46:10

That is updated daily by virtue of using the mobile.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:46:15

So imagine if we have access to calendar permission, uh, both Android and iOS.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:46:21

We at metadata related to the way you are booking or scheduling, uh, meetings.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:46:28

How many people do you invite, how many calls do you have on a weekly basis?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:46:35

And if you claim to be a white collar kind of on your, on your loan application,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:46:43

but then we don't see any calendar, uh, events scheduled right there.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:46:49

There may be something fishy, right, that you may want to investigate further.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:46:55

in a similar way, if we have access to context, and I say if, because not all.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:01

And users grant us access to these permissions.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:05

So if we have access to contacts, uh, we don't, uh, download

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:09

the actual address book.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:11

We don't need that.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:12

we look at patterns, we look at how many new contacts you create per day,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:18

for instance, or per month, per, even during the week versus weekends, right?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:25

If you are a social person, perhaps you would be, uh, generating

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:29

more contacts over the weekend than during the work week.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:33

And, um, so we look at these behavioral patterns, but also.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:37

How many contacts are favored?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:39

How many have a, a custom melody, for instance, and these are behavioral in

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:46

natures, so your preferences different from mine, It may be correlated

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:52

with probability to default or not.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:47:55

but also from a fraudulent standpoint, if we noticed that week leading or

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:48:01

the month leading to an application of a loan, you have downloaded 5, 6,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:48:07

10 finance apps, uh, finance apps.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:48:12

So, well, we know that if you have more than 13 apps in the finance

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:48:16

category, you may be 2.6 times riskier than somebody with less than five.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:48:22

This very quickly helps me understand,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:48:25

the.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:48:26

10 million behavioral features.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:48:29

And as you go through all of these things, it really helps me

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:48:33

to understand how nuanced we get in all of our mobile devices.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:48:39

And just thinking through it, like I got a new laptop and I

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:48:44

set that up clean from beginning.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:48:46

So if you looked at that one versus the machine I'm on now, it's gonna

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:48:50

look totally different, but there are gonna be a handful of similarities.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:48:54

And then I've got an iPad

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:48:56

that has a lot of the same stuff my mobile device does, but my mobile

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:49:00

phone has more on it than the iPad.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:49:04

So I can see how all of those different things come into play.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:49:09

In an ecosystem like iOS, are you able to see the interconnectivity

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:49:16

between those or is it purely just on that one particular device?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:49:22

We analyze behaviors.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:49:24

On each individual phone.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:49:27

uh, we don't see the connectivity between data on iOS and Android, simply because

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:49:34

a customer has either one or the other.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:49:37

So if you come a client of Credolab and you apply for a loan

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:49:43

through the app of the client,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:49:46

then we can look at the data of you an applicant.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:49:51

Full stop.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:49:52

We don't see data from other people.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:49:56

What we look for is similarities in the behaviors of delinquent customers

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:50:04

as a way to predict how, um, likely are you to miss a payment, for

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:50:11

how likely are you to be behaving in a way that is similar to a

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:50:15

confirmed fraudulent applicant.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:50:18

with Apple, there's a do not track

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:50:20

device, do not track feature.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:50:23

Does that immediately make me look like a bad, , bad, uh, consumer for a loan?

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:50:30

Or how do you, how are you seeing that impact the, the credibility

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:50:35

of the individual with Credolabs?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:50:39

Uh, it doesn't make you

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:50:41

a bad actor right away.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:50:43

Uh, you can simply be, cautious about the data you generate and

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:50:49

you want to protect your own data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:50:52

today we see about 98% of all people actually granting access to

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:50:56

permissions and the, but the main point is also that you will trust

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:51:02

the financial inti institution.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:51:05

when we, uh, look at data, we look also uh, uh, X number of data points.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:51:11

It's not just you trying to hide a particular, uh, permission or

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:51:15

a particular category of data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:51:17

We triangulate a lot of data points.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:51:20

today we see about 98% of all people actually granting access to

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:51:24

permissions and the, but the main point is also that you will trust

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:51:30

the financial inti institution.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:51:33

we just provide lenders with insights to be able to make themselves better

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:51:40

I could go deep down the rabbit hole

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:51:43

in all of these technical things.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:51:44

I'm a data geek at heart, but before I ask the last question of today, I

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:51:51

wanna understand, is there anything that

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:51:55

you wanted to make sure that the audience understands about

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:51:59

Credolab that you want to share?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:05

Yes, the there is a misconception

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:09

about, uh, behavioral data or perhaps alternative data in general.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:14

So let's go back to the basics.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:16

What is alternative data?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:19

It's a broad definition of anything that is not traditional.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:23

so traditional data is credit score, the application form

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:29

data, social demographic data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:31

You have.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:52:32

Mm-hmm.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:32

else is traditional.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:34

So you mentioned Plaid and Finicity.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:37

They are alternative data in the bucket of transactional data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:42

Then you can have psychometric assessments, you can have telco,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:47

scores, uh, you can have, um, tax, even in some countries, lender

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:53

use tax data, uh, because there is no open banking framework.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:52:59

So tax data helps them to understand, uh, the affordability of particular customers.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:53:06

So, behavioral data is a subset of alternative data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:53:12

Data has very little correlation below 5% with any of the other

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:53:18

sources of alternative data and also traditional data.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:53:23

So since you're a data geek, correlation uh, high orthogonality.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:53:30

orthogonal data sets should be welcomed by anybody.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:53:35

The more data you can find of that particular individual,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:53:40

better for any lender.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:53:43

At that

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:53:44

The only question becomes how much should I pay for that additional source

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:53:49

of data, for that additional score?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:53:53

that really depends on the unit economics of the lending product.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:53:59

So going into the last question,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:54:01

and this is uh, somewhat of a personal perspective question.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:54:06

If you were to give FinTech executives or startup founders that one piece of

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:54:11

advice on how to build a successful company, what would that be and why?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:54:22

Don't listen to VCs.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:54:29

Don't

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:54:29

Expand on that.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:54:31

Sure.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:54:32

It's VCs are helpful of course.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:54:36

We all need a venture money.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:54:38

Uh, we all need capital to grow capital, to bring an idea from being

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:54:46

just an idea into an actual product.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:54:49

However,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:54:51

the objectives of VCs are not necessarily, or not always aligned with the

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:54:57

objectives of you as an entrepreneur.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:55:01

my recommendation would be to focus on profitability rather

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:55:07

than growth at any cost.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:55:11

Fantastic.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:55:12

I love the advice.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:55:14

It is one of those things that, uh, I can see my VC and private equity

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:55:20

firm friends just cringing a little bit over there, which makes me happy.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:55:26

if people wanna learn more about Credolab, if they wanna learn more

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:55:29

about you, if they wanna reach out, what is the best way to get ahold

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:55:34

of you to see about adding Credolab technology to their product or service?

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:55:42

Happy to walk you through a demo.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:55:44

Happy to discuss more how we can help, because at the end of the day,

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:55:49

what we want is to bring more people into mainstream financial services, and

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:55:54

these very people have a smartphone.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:55:56

They interact with websites.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:55:59

So, uh, we, we have a way to help you there.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:56:04

So what we'll go ahead and do is we'll,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:56:06

we'll go ahead and put all of the links to get ahold of me, Michele, as well as

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:56:12

Credolab in the show notes down below.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:56:15

We'll have all that information, but if you want to make sure that

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:56:19

you get direct access and find out more and get a super fast response,

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:56:25

go ahead and go to www.credolab.fintechcnfidential.com

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:56:30

and we'll get you directly connected with Michele and the

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:56:33

rest of the team over at Credolabs.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:56:35

Michele, thank you so much for the time today.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:56:38

We dove so deep into so many different areas and you really have shed

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:56:43

light on how to look at the data.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential, Host:

: 00:56:45

On mobile phones in a different way on to fill in this financial inclusion gap.

Michele Tucci - Credolab, Chief Strategy Officer and MD Americas:

: 00:56:53

Grazie Tedd, this was awesome.

Tedd Huff - Fintech Confidential :

: 00:56:55

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